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ryan83vt
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:50 pm    Post subject: Gentoo pisses me off sometimes... Reply with quote

I'm not trying to be "that guy" who posts about how he hates gentoo now and starts a 20 page discussion full of people trying to rebut him...

But it really annoys me that I have to constantly "tweak" my system in order to get updates. I like to do an emerge -uD world every week or so, but after a while something will block something else. So then I'll have to add a line in my package.keywords file. But then sometimes that doesn't work and I have to edit the /etc/portage/profiles/package.mask file. Or, I have to do some number of different tweaks to get everything to update. And if I decide I don't want to bother with it now (as does usually happen), I'll end up not updating for a few weeks, or maybe a few months. Then what was one little tweak has turned into several tweaks and a big hassle just to get my system updated. I should be able to edit my package.keywords file once and not have to consistently tweak my files every so often. I just want it to work! I have better things to do than keep editing config files.

So maybe I'm just venting but I haven't been able to update world for a while because every time I unmask a blocked package, ANOTHER one comes up as blocked! Who knows HOW many are blocked? Will I keep unmasking forever?
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ryan83vt
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the spirit of task thread continuity (fancy term from usability engineering class), portage should allow me a way to unmask a file automatically when it encounters such a problem. i.e.:
Code:
error, one of the following masked packages is required to complete your request:
- media-sound/xmms-1.2.10-r16 (masked by package.mask, ~x86 keyword)
# Use anything but this, like media-sound/audacious
# media-sound/amarok media-sound/mpd media-sound/rhythmbox
# media-sound/muine media-sound/banshee

Would you like to unmask this file? [Y/n] _
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Voltago
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, use only stable packages then. They are not masked nor depend on masked packages. The reason why xmms is masked is that it will be removed from portage soon, as reported in last week's GWN. The portage replacement paludis features an --as-needed option like you described it (but if I remember correctly, it is currently broken).
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dleverton
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voltago wrote:
The portage replacement paludis features an --as-needed option like you described it (but if I remember correctly, it is currently broken).

Are you sure? It would be rather ironic if it had that option - are you sure you're not thinking of said blog post?
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adekoba
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love it. Those minor "annoyances" prevent future problems.
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Nick C
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ryan83vt wrote:
In the spirit of task thread continuity (fancy term from usability engineering class), portage should allow me a way to unmask a file automatically when it encounters such a problem. i.e.:
Code:
error, one of the following masked packages is required to complete your request:
- media-sound/xmms-1.2.10-r16 (masked by package.mask, ~x86 keyword)
# Use anything but this, like media-sound/audacious
# media-sound/amarok media-sound/mpd media-sound/rhythmbox
# media-sound/muine media-sound/banshee

Would you like to unmask this file? [Y/n] _


*joy* Because what we really need to do is make it easier for people to break the systems :roll:

It really would be easier to have one central "Bitch about XMMS" thread, their everywhere atm!
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Shadow Skill
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be no easier than the totally nonexistant reverse dependency resolution that lets you completely nuke your box if you don't really know about dependencies.
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ciaranm
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dleverton wrote:
Voltago wrote:
The portage replacement paludis features an --as-needed option like you described it (but if I remember correctly, it is currently broken).

Are you sure? It would be rather ironic if it had that option - are you sure you're not thinking of said blog post?

Paludis has --dl-upgrade as-needed. Normally, when installing a package, Paludis will try to upgrade any of its dependencies (and any of its dependencies' dependencies and so on), sort of like emerge -D except done properly. Sometimes this can lead to huge updates (glibc etc) being pulled in when you just want to install a little package, so --dl-upgrade as-needed can be used to override that.

This has nothing to do with the --as-needed ld option, which is broken as explained in that link.
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dleverton
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ciaranm wrote:
This has nothing to do with the --as-needed ld option, which is broken as explained in that link.

Sure - I just thought it was odd that Paludis would have an option with the same name. Although now you've explained that it's a similar name, not the same, it's not such a big deal.
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jonnevers
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ryan83vt wrote:
In the spirit of task thread continuity (fancy term from usability engineering class), portage should allow me a way to unmask a file automatically when it encounters such a problem. i.e.:
Code:
error, one of the following masked packages is required to complete your request:
- media-sound/xmms-1.2.10-r16 (masked by package.mask, ~x86 keyword)
# Use anything but this, like media-sound/audacious
# media-sound/amarok media-sound/mpd media-sound/rhythmbox
# media-sound/muine media-sound/banshee

Would you like to unmask this file? [Y/n] _


well. it should at least list all of the masked packages that would be emerged rather then one. You add that one to package.keywords, it lists the next. rinse and repeat.

I made a small patch for what is now an old version of portage that lists all the blocked packages in line when using the -p flag... its really helped out over the last couple months. I keep that emerge.py script outside the main portage tree and use it whenever the official emerge barfs on wanting a masked pacakge.

I suppose inlining the keywording process would be the next logical step.
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ciaranm
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dleverton wrote:
ciaranm wrote:
This has nothing to do with the --as-needed ld option, which is broken as explained in that link.

Sure - I just thought it was odd that Paludis would have an option with the same name.

Clearly you are not familiar with the quirks of any of the Paludis developers.
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Monkeh
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ciaranm wrote:
dleverton wrote:
ciaranm wrote:
This has nothing to do with the --as-needed ld option, which is broken as explained in that link.

Sure - I just thought it was odd that Paludis would have an option with the same name.

Clearly you are not familiar with the quirks of any of the Paludis developers.


I don't think he wants to be.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Gentoo pisses me off sometimes... Reply with quote

ryan83vt wrote:
I'm not trying to be "that guy" who posts about how he hates gentoo now and starts a 20 page discussion full of people trying to rebut him...


heh ... but thats what its going to turn into anyway :)
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Rad
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuroo and possibly some other portage frontends already have this functionality.

Not that it's such a great idea if you can just click "yes" for keyworded and possibly even masked packages. If you intend to do that every time anyways, you should save yourself the trouble and just run Gentoo unstable.

If you want Gentoo stable mixed with a few packages from unstable, you're better off deciding by yourself what should be done, with bias towards REMOVING unmasking keywords from your portage config files instead of putting more there.
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ryan83vt
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nick C wrote:
ryan83vt wrote:
In the spirit of task thread continuity (fancy term from usability engineering class), portage should allow me a way to unmask a file automatically when it encounters such a problem. i.e.:
Code:
error, one of the following masked packages is required to complete your request:
- media-sound/xmms-1.2.10-r16 (masked by package.mask, ~x86 keyword)
# Use anything but this, like media-sound/audacious
# media-sound/amarok media-sound/mpd media-sound/rhythmbox
# media-sound/muine media-sound/banshee

Would you like to unmask this file? [Y/n] _


*joy* Because what we really need to do is make it easier for people to break the systems :roll:

It really would be easier to have one central "Bitch about XMMS" thread, their everywhere atm!
I actually found the solution for the XMMS problem, and I don't even use XMMS so that should be solved. The point isn't me wanting XMMS and it isn't even about the technical limitations of a potential solution to this, but just that it's annoying from a user's standpoint to have to keep modifying config files. From strictly a user's standpoint, I'd like to say "give me only stable packages, except I want bleeding edge KDE and Amarok" and let the system figure out the rest. Whether or not that's feasible is another thing.
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beandog
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ryan83vt wrote:
The point isn't me wanting XMMS and it isn't even about the technical limitations of a potential solution to this, but just that it's annoying from a user's standpoint to have to keep modifying config files.


Yah, I agree, actually. flagedit helps a lot with some stuff, but even with that its too much work to move stuff to package.unmask and package.keywords. I'm lazy, make it simple, dangit!

Oh well, I'm writing my own tools anyway.
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W3BMAST3R101
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:44 am    Post subject: Re: Gentoo pisses me off sometimes... Reply with quote

ryan83vt wrote:

So maybe I'm just venting but I haven't been able to update world for a while because every time I unmask a blocked package, ANOTHER one comes up as blocked! Who knows HOW many are blocked? Will I keep unmasking forever?


That's why it's best to avoid unmasking certain apps unless you absolutely need the latest and greatest.
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