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maltheus
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 125
Location: Colorado Springs
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 Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks nenolod. I'll give that tarball a try when I get home. Any chance it'll make it into an e-build before they remove xmms in a month?
My only other concerns relate to scriptability. I have a remote control, tied to shell scripts to control all my media players. I'm hoping there is something like xmms-ctrl or dcop for audacious (I don't care for lirc plugins). I assume there is and I'll check the man page in a bit. I know amarok has dcop, but the screenshots have turned my stomach. Audacious doesn't look nearly as bloated.
I'm really hoping that I'll be able to control the visualization plugin. I couldn't do that through XMMS, but once it was on, it always came up when I started it. Using ratpoison and a little scripting, I was able to get it to do what I wanted. It took days of tweaking and that's why I'm so upset bout XMMS going away. I had just gotten to the point where I could relax and enjoy my setup. But assuming that I can ultimately do what I want to do, then maybe this won't have been such a bad thing. XMMS was lacking in a few areas. I might ultimately have to look into writing my own frontend someday, I just have too many other projects on my plate. |
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dogshu
Apprentice
Joined: 22 Jun 2003
Posts: 173
Location: New Haven, CT, USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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OK, after trying audacious, I see that it does not meet my needs. For the curious, here's my list of showstoppers:
1) I have a very large music collection, and like to put it on shuffle occassionally. I have a large .m3u file that is generated nightly with every mp3 on my system. According to "wc -l", it has more than 30,000 songs listed in it. xmms can load the playlist in a few seconds. Even with metadata loading completely disabled, audacious does not load it anywhere close to fast enough. I'm trying to test how long it would take audacious to load the playlist right now.... its being churning away for 5 minutes now with no end in sight.
2) I use a remote control, however because I use the remote for several different programs I do not use LIRC plugins, instead I use LIRC's irexec, which then calls xmmsctrl, tvtime-command, and xine-remote, and based on which program is running dispatches the appropriate command. An example from my .lircrc:
| Code: | # Fullscreen: xmms start/stop, tvtime/dvdplayer toggle fullscreen
begin
prog = irexec
button = KEY_ZOOM
config = sh -c "if xmmsctrl playing ; then xmmsctrl stop ; else if xmmsctrl play ; then exit ; else if xine-remote -c 'identify x:x ; fullscreen' ; then exit ; else tvtime-command TOGGLE_FULLSCREEN ; fi ; fi ; fi"
end |
The reason that this works is that both xmmsctrl and xine-remote will return "true" as the exit code when xmms/xine is running, and "false" as the exit code when they are not running. However, both with and without audacious running, "audacious -n 0" will always return "true". So the command line interface is not sufficient for my needs.
Oh yeah, by the way, its been almost 20 minutes and audacious is still loading my playlist... |
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BasketCase
n00b
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 67
Location: Orlando, FL
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| dogshu wrote: |
1) I have a very large music collection, and like to put it on shuffle occassionally. I have a large .m3u file that is generated nightly with every mp3 on my system. According to "wc -l", it has more than 30,000 songs listed in it. xmms can load the playlist in a few seconds. Even with metadata loading completely disabled, audacious does not load it anywhere close to fast enough. I'm trying to test how long it would take audacious to load the playlist right now.... its being churning away for 5 minutes now with no end in sight.
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There is also an option about detecting filetypes on load or demand. Turn that off too.
I just loaded a 12359 line playlist in ~1.5 seconds. |
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jannemann
n00b
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 32
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:33 am Post subject: |
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| dogshu wrote: | | I use a remote control, however because I use the remote for several different programs I do not use LIRC plugins, instead I use LIRC's irexec, which then calls xmmsctrl, tvtime-command, and xine-remote, and based on which program is running dispatches the appropriate command. An example from my .lircrc: [...] |
I like that idea, as I'm using the appropriate lirc-plugins mostly. Would you please post/send me your whole .lircrc?
As for audacious: Have you checked audtool? That seems to be what you're looking for when you want to control audacious from outside. |
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Kaste
Guru
Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 546
Location: /home Sweet /home
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:35 am Post subject: |
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Is anyone else experiencing problems when moving audacious around with equalizer and playlist window snapped to the main window at "ridicolously high resolutions" (= 1600 X 1200 in my case)?
For me i can move it around but if i hit the section marked below the windows shuffle into each other as if they were repelled and stack on top of each other. Interestingly they go back to their previous position when moving into the sane region. It looks like it is assuming some maximum resolution and thinks it is moved outside the visible area when move the the far regions. Just guessing here
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nenolod
Apprentice
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 199
Location: Tulsa, OK
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| maltheus wrote: | Thanks nenolod. I'll give that tarball a try when I get home. Any chance it'll make it into an e-build before they remove xmms in a month?
My only other concerns relate to scriptability. I have a remote control, tied to shell scripts to control all my media players. I'm hoping there is something like xmms-ctrl or dcop for audacious (I don't care for lirc plugins). I assume there is and I'll check the man page in a bit. I know amarok has dcop, but the screenshots have turned my stomach. Audacious doesn't look nearly as bloated. |
audtool is the audacious replacement for xmmsctrl. Failing that, there is a port of XMMS-Pipe, available at http://people.atheme.org/~nenolod/audacious/plugins/audpipe-0.1.tgz
| maltheus wrote: | | I'm really hoping that I'll be able to control the visualization plugin. I couldn't do that through XMMS, but once it was on, it always came up when I started it. Using ratpoison and a little scripting, I was able to get it to do what I wanted. It took days of tweaking and that's why I'm so upset bout XMMS going away. I had just gotten to the point where I could relax and enjoy my setup. But assuming that I can ultimately do what I want to do, then maybe this won't have been such a bad thing. XMMS was lacking in a few areas. I might ultimately have to look into writing my own frontend someday, I just have too many other projects on my plate. |
What you have should be easy to move to audacious.
| Kaste wrote: | Is anyone else experiencing problems when moving audacious around with equalizer and playlist window snapped to the main window at "ridicolously high resolutions" (= 1600 X 1200 in my case)?
For me i can move it around but if i hit the section marked below the windows shuffle into each other as if they were repelled and stack on top of each other. Interestingly they go back to their previous position when moving into the sane region. It looks like it is assuming some maximum resolution and thinks it is moved outside the visible area when move the the far regions. Just guessing here
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You're using beryl, aren't you.
Anyway, that's a beryl bug, not an audacious bug, and there's nothing we can do about it from our side.
| dogshu wrote: | OK, after trying audacious, I see that it does not meet my needs. For the curious, here's my list of showstoppers:
1) I have a very large music collection, and like to put it on shuffle occassionally. I have a large .m3u file that is generated nightly with every mp3 on my system. According to "wc -l", it has more than 30,000 songs listed in it. xmms can load the playlist in a few seconds. Even with metadata loading completely disabled, audacious does not load it anywhere close to fast enough. I'm trying to test how long it would take audacious to load the playlist right now.... its being churning away for 5 minutes now with no end in sight. |
Do the following for maximum performance on large playlists:
- ENABLE: Audio -> Format Detection -> Detect file formats on demand, instead of immediately.
- (Optional): DISABLE: Playlist -> Metadata -> Load metadata from files and playlists.
That should make things load *faster* than XMMS did.
| dogshu wrote: | 2) I use a remote control, however because I use the remote for several different programs I do not use LIRC plugins, instead I use LIRC's irexec, which then calls xmmsctrl, tvtime-command, and xine-remote, and based on which program is running dispatches the appropriate command. An example from my .lircrc:
| Code: | # Fullscreen: xmms start/stop, tvtime/dvdplayer toggle fullscreen
begin
prog = irexec
button = KEY_ZOOM
config = sh -c "if xmmsctrl playing ; then xmmsctrl stop ; else if xmmsctrl play ; then exit ; else if xine-remote -c 'identify x:x ; fullscreen' ; then exit ; else tvtime-command TOGGLE_FULLSCREEN ; fi ; fi ; fi"
end |
The reason that this works is that both xmmsctrl and xine-remote will return "true" as the exit code when xmms/xine is running, and "false" as the exit code when they are not running. However, both with and without audacious running, "audacious -n 0" will always return "true". So the command line interface is not sufficient for my needs. |
Give audtool a try for this, it's a lot like xmmsctrl.
- nenolod |
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cyberpatrol
Apprentice
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
Posts: 161
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:57 am Post subject: |
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I haven't read the whole thread and I don't really want to step into the discussion. Somehow I can understand the Gentoo developers and somehow I can't. Nevertheless it's sad that XMMS is dead and removed from portage.
For the people who want to keep XMMS here's a script to rescue XMMS to the portage overlay (/usr/local/portage), unmask it and download the sources. It depends on eix.
| Code: | #!/bin/bash
for PACKAGE in `eix -c xmms | grep ^"\[" | cut -f2 -d" "`
do
DIR=`echo $PACKAGE | cut -f1 -d"/"`
FILE=`echo $PACKAGE | cut -f2 -d"/"`
mkdir -p /usr/local/portage/$DIR
cp -R /usr/portage/$PACKAGE /usr/local/portage/$PACKAGE
echo $PACKAGE >> /etc/portage/package.unmask
emerge -Of $FILE
done |
I'll attach it also to bug 152472. |
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hiziki_gard
n00b
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 50
Location: dark side of the moon
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:20 am Post subject: |
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| BasketCase wrote: | | dogshu wrote: |
1) I have a very large music collection, and like to put it on shuffle occassionally. I have a large .m3u file that is generated nightly with every mp3 on my system. According to "wc -l", it has more than 30,000 songs listed in it. xmms can load the playlist in a few seconds. Even with metadata loading completely disabled, audacious does not load it anywhere close to fast enough. I'm trying to test how long it would take audacious to load the playlist right now.... its being churning away for 5 minutes now with no end in sight.
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There is also an option about detecting filetypes on load or demand. Turn that off too.
I just loaded a 12359 line playlist in ~1.5 seconds. |
That is still shitty loading time by my standard. Foobar2000 in wine can my load my entire database playlist (16000+ songs) in about 0.5 scond.  Of course that is using the slowest method of loading a playlist in foobar2k (by opening the playlist file itself).
_________________
default-linux/amd64/2007.0, gcc-4.2.3, glibc-2.7-r2, 2.6.25-hh5 x86_64 |
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BasketCase
n00b
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 67
Location: Orlando, FL
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:29 am Post subject: |
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On the same hardware with both players already running loading my full playlist from the command line takes 1.52 seconds in audacious or .43 seconds in xmms. There is definately a difference but it just isn't enough of a difference to determine which program I like better.
Definately not as important as doublesize anyways  |
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gtbX
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 126
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:58 am Post subject: |
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I tried going to audacious a while ago. I switched back to xmms because of the terrible performance - this was on an ultrasparcII, so not much cpu power to spare. Xmms used ~20% cpu to decode mp3's and around 6% for ogg's. Audacious was at 30% for mp3's and 50%(!) for oggs - and they skipped way too much. Admittidely, I didn't try the latest version, which I will as soon as it finishes compiling.
The only other thing I use from xmms is the wmxmms applet - I don't know of any equivalent for audacious. audacious-docklet is close, but doesn't give many controls (wmxmms wasn't the best either though)
For those liking the default xmms skin, audacious can read it easily. The only place I've found it though is in the xmms source tarball. |
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GenKreton
l33t
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 828
Location: Cambridge, MA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:18 am Post subject: |
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I tried switching to other apps but I kept going back to xmms for many reasons. So I went to audacious yesterday and right away
 ram usage is almost 4x as much as xmms with my playlist
searching takes ages
it can't search album titles unless you preload all tags, xmms did it (by the dir structure I believe)
This is in part due to my 36,000 song playlist, but if an old, buggy media player handled it I don't see why a shiny new one can't... My laptop only has 512 MB of ram - it's all I have in my dorm room - and audacious LOADS using 26% of it... Only the last.fm plugin is used besides the default decoders, and the default skin.
It is frustrating to say the least. |
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nenolod
Apprentice
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 199
Location: Tulsa, OK
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| GenKreton wrote: | I tried switching to other apps but I kept going back to xmms for many reasons. So I went to audacious yesterday and right away
ram usage is almost 4x as much as xmms with my playlist
searching takes ages
it can't search album titles unless you preload all tags, xmms did it (by the dir structure I believe)
This is in part due to my 36,000 song playlist, but if an old, buggy media player handled it I don't see why a shiny new one can't... My laptop only has 512 MB of ram - it's all I have in my dorm room - and audacious LOADS using 26% of it... Only the last.fm plugin is used besides the default decoders, and the default skin.
It is frustrating to say the least. |
Audacious is quite a different player than XMMS when it comes to Metadata.
Due to this, more memory is used, but you can also get a host of other features, like:
- a last.fm plugin that doesn't have bugs and redundant tagging code
- if you mouse over a playlist entry, it will tell you more about it
- more sorting options
- album artwork
Searching takes ages due to GTK+2's tree/list store sucking majorly. We're trying to improve upon it.
In general: Please bear with us instead of complaining about us. We didn't want to be in the position of accepting a bunch of people who were happy with XMMS and -wanted- XMMS. We can try to help you migrate, but that's all we can realistically do at the moment.
I will provide some advice: if you use audacious 1.2.x, you can simply use the XSPF playlist format, and it will load more quickly as metadata/format info is saved.
- nenolod |
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cyberpatrol
Apprentice
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
Posts: 161
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:01 am Post subject: |
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Well, considering that this thread seems to be an XMMS vs. Audacious thread now I think I should say that I had to cry a bit when just uninstalling XMMS. 
I remember that I tried Audacious a while ago, more than a year I think, but I don't know why I uninstalled it again in favour of XMMS, maybe because of missing features. In the meantime I have to admit that I've forgotten it. 
Because after consulting one's pillow for one night in most cases the Gentoo dev's decisions make sense, I just tried Audacious again after copying XMMS to my portage overlay. I must say that I like it. It is more stable, seems to have a better sound quality, has a better usability and is nicer. So I think I am a new and happy Audacious user.
For me only two features are missing. But there are already feature requests and as nenolod has written he's already working on them (alarm and rtsp).
So I guess I can happily live without XMMS. And I think Audacious has got what it takes to become the next standard audio player like XMMS was until now. |
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nenolod
Apprentice
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 199
Location: Tulsa, OK
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| cyberpatrol wrote: | Well, considering that this thread seems to be an XMMS vs. Audacious thread now I think I should say that I had to cry a bit when just uninstalling XMMS.
I remember that I tried Audacious a while ago, more than a year I think, but I don't know why I uninstalled it again in favour of XMMS, maybe because of missing features. In the meantime I have to admit that I've forgotten it.
Because after consulting one's pillow for one night in most cases the Gentoo dev's decisions make sense, I just tried Audacious again after copying XMMS to my portage overlay. I must say that I like it. It is more stable, seems to have a better sound quality, has a better usability and is nicer. So I think I am a new and happy Audacious user.
For me only two features are missing. But there are already feature requests and as nenolod has written he's already working on them (alarm and rtsp). |
luca barbato (lu_zero) already has some rtsp stuff in the tree via libnms (nemesi). but you need nemesi svn to take advantage of it atm.
as for alarm, check back in an hour or two.
| cyberpatrol wrote: | | So I guess I can happily live without XMMS. And I think Audacious has got what it takes to become the next standard audio player like XMMS was until now. |
thanks
- nenolod |
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Da Fox
Guru
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 341
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:00 am Post subject: |
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Can someone please explain what people in this thread when they say 'audacious' is "more stable" than xmms?
Because I have never seen xmms hang, and the only crash(es) that I have ever seen where due to the mod-play plugin (MikMod Player) and *some* audiofiles.
So how is it that audacious is "more stable"?
_________________
"Man fears the darkness, and so he scrapes away at the edges of it with fire."
- Rei Ayanami
JGBE, a Java based GameBoy Emulator |
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nenolod
Apprentice
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 199
Location: Tulsa, OK
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KillMinusNine
n00b
Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 44
Location: Washington
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:25 am Post subject: |
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nenolod
Two things about audalarm. First, your version doesn't respect --enable-user-dir in ./configure, so it installs into .bmp instead of .audacious. Same problem with pkg-configure lines in there. Second, your version has the same issue my attempt to port it has with crashing during nanosleep (and I don't know enough about threading to fix it, unfortunately)
Also, here's a link to a modified audpipe package - Here - which fixes the crash-on-quit bug in the plugin (among smaller changes). |
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nenolod
Apprentice
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 199
Location: Tulsa, OK
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| Da Fox wrote: | Can someone please explain what people in this thread when they say 'audacious' is "more stable" than xmms?
Because I have never seen xmms hang, and the only crash(es) that I have ever seen where due to the mod-play plugin (MikMod Player) and *some* audiofiles.
So how is it that audacious is "more stable"? |
Most of XMMS's instability has nothing to do with XMMS itself; but the plugins included in the gentoo XMMS ebuild. For instance, XMMS-MAD is a treasure-trove of bugs and issues (it doesn't even get VBR lengths right).
A lot of the plugin ports from XMMS -> Audacious are considered higher quality because the sourcecode of the plugin usually gets audited if the port is done by somebody close to the audacious project itself. Thus potential bugs are corrected early on.
Hope that helps.
- nenolod |
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nenolod
Apprentice
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 199
Location: Tulsa, OK
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| KillMinusNine wrote: | nenolod
Two things about audalarm. First, your version doesn't respect --enable-user-dir in ./configure, so it installs into .bmp instead of .audacious. Same problem with pkg-configure lines in there. Second, your version has the same issue my attempt to port it has with crashing during nanosleep (and I don't know enough about threading to fix it, unfortunately)
Also, here's a link to a modified audpipe package - Here - which fixes the crash-on-quit bug in the plugin (among smaller changes). |
Ok, I have fixed these issues: http://people.atheme.org/~nenolod/audacious/plugins/audalarm-1.0.1.tgz
I switched the nanosleep() call to g_usleep(), which fixes the threading concurrency issue on NPTL.
I will update audpipe to your patched version, momentarily. Thanks!  |
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KillMinusNine
n00b
Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 44
Location: Washington
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| nenolod wrote: | | KillMinusNine wrote: | nenolod
Two things about audalarm. First, your version doesn't respect --enable-user-dir in ./configure, so it installs into .bmp instead of .audacious. Same problem with pkg-configure lines in there. Second, your version has the same issue my attempt to port it has with crashing during nanosleep (and I don't know enough about threading to fix it, unfortunately)
Also, here's a link to a modified audpipe package - Here - which fixes the crash-on-quit bug in the plugin (among smaller changes). |
Ok, I have fixed these issues: http://people.atheme.org/~nenolod/audacious/plugins/audalarm-1.0.1.tgz
I switched the nanosleep() call to g_usleep(), which fixes the threading concurrency issue on NPTL.
I will update audpipe to your patched version, momentarily. Thanks! |
Also, I'm willing to help in the porting efforts, just let me know which plugins you'd like me to look at. No point in duplicating efforts. I can't fix all issues (IE, threading), but I can probably at least get things working and tell you what it is I don't know how to fix when I hit it.  |
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cyberpatrol
Apprentice
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
Posts: 161
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:46 am Post subject: |
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And there are XMMS plugins which don't work together with other plugins and/or cause problems from which one doesn't think that they could be caused by this plugin. One of these plugins is the normalization plugin. I can't remember what problem this plugin has caused. Can be that the alarm plugin doesn't work or a special file type can't be played when this is acitvated or something like that.
Some plugins causes XMMS to crash when they are configured through the configuration diaglog like the flac plugin.
There were some other plugins which I had to deactivate or uninstall to get XMMS run stable. |
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nenolod
Apprentice
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 199
Location: Tulsa, OK
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:48 am Post subject: |
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| KillMinusNine wrote: | | nenolod wrote: | | KillMinusNine wrote: | nenolod
Two things about audalarm. First, your version doesn't respect --enable-user-dir in ./configure, so it installs into .bmp instead of .audacious. Same problem with pkg-configure lines in there. Second, your version has the same issue my attempt to port it has with crashing during nanosleep (and I don't know enough about threading to fix it, unfortunately)
Also, here's a link to a modified audpipe package - Here - which fixes the crash-on-quit bug in the plugin (among smaller changes). |
Ok, I have fixed these issues: http://people.atheme.org/~nenolod/audacious/plugins/audalarm-1.0.1.tgz
I switched the nanosleep() call to g_usleep(), which fixes the threading concurrency issue on NPTL.
I will update audpipe to your patched version, momentarily. Thanks! |
Also, I'm willing to help in the porting efforts, just let me know which plugins you'd like me to look at. No point in duplicating efforts. I can't fix all issues (IE, threading), but I can probably at least get things working and tell you what it is I don't know how to fix when I hit it. |
Do you have an IRC client? If so, we're in #audacious on irc.atheme.org. It'd be helpful if you met up there. |
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pa4wdh
l33t
Joined: 16 Dec 2005
Posts: 811
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:30 am Post subject: |
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Hi,
Please forgive me for not reading the 9 pages of posts so far ....
I have a few kde packages and mplayer depending on xmms. I use xmms mainly because if supports MOD files (good old amiga 4-track music). As far as i know there's no way to get this type of file supported in the same way as via xmms libs used by mplayer etc. or is there an other way ?
I'm in no way emotional attached to xmms, but sure love the functionality, and it breaks my update of world right now (yes, i know how to unmask, but if this is a preparation for removal i want a permanent solution).
Best regards,
pa4wdh |
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Kaste
Guru
Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 546
Location: /home Sweet /home
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| Nenolod wrote: | You're using beryl, aren't you.
Anyway, that's a beryl bug, not an audacious bug, and there's nothing we can do about it from our side.
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Excellent guess. Thanks for the clarification. I am still amazed at the pace at which you answer and code, have you discovered relativistic movements for yourself? |
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01mf02
Veteran
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 1070
Location: Innsbruck, Austria
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
I have a few kde packages and mplayer depending on xmms. I use xmms mainly because if supports MOD files (good old amiga 4-track music). As far as i know there's no way to get this type of file supported in the same way as via xmms libs used by mplayer etc. or is there an other way ?
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Audacious can play MOD files if you enable the modplug USE flag.
Anyway, I want to say thanks to Nenolod for taking himself so much time to answer questions here! |
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