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| Who would you like most to be a user representative? |
| _AxS_ |
|
2% |
[ 10 ] |
| AllenJB |
|
0% |
[ 3 ] |
| Anarcho |
|
1% |
[ 8 ] |
| ASIO_BOB |
|
1% |
[ 7 ] |
| cheater1034 |
|
5% |
[ 28 ] |
| CoffeeBuzz |
|
6% |
[ 30 ] |
| cokehabit |
|
13% |
[ 65 ] |
| djay |
|
1% |
[ 5 ] |
| DrChandra |
|
1% |
[ 7 ] |
| InfoManiac |
|
0% |
[ 0 ] |
| kopp |
|
11% |
[ 54 ] |
| likewhoa |
|
3% |
[ 17 ] |
| loki99 |
|
3% |
[ 19 ] |
| lxnay |
|
6% |
[ 33 ] |
| Monkeh |
|
0% |
[ 1 ] |
| nephros |
|
6% |
[ 30 ] |
| nxsty |
|
6% |
[ 29 ] |
| orick |
|
1% |
[ 6 ] |
| pablo_supertux |
|
1% |
[ 7 ] |
| padde |
|
1% |
[ 6 ] |
| Q-collective |
|
6% |
[ 30 ] |
| Richard Fish |
|
4% |
[ 23 ] |
| sluggo |
|
0% |
[ 4 ] |
| STiGMaTa_ch |
|
2% |
[ 13 ] |
| taskara |
|
2% |
[ 14 ] |
| Tiger683 |
|
1% |
[ 5 ] |
| tophisher |
|
0% |
[ 3 ] |
| toskala |
|
3% |
[ 15 ] |
| XenoTerraCide |
|
1% |
[ 5 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 477 |
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| Author |
Message |
vipernicus
Veteran
Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 1462
Location: Your College IT Dept.
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 Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 3:51 am Post subject: |
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| playfool wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | playfool wrote: | | RuiP wrote: | | playfool wrote: | | ... of all the people on the list you are the most vocal one. |
Who cokehabit? Not a little bit.
The most vocal of that list is InfoManiac! Compared to him cokehabit is a mere balbutiating asthmatic...  |
Okay I admit it, I've been a part of this community so long that everyone I remember as being useful when I was using Gentoo have left or died (rest in peace Michal). When the most useful person I know left is Cokehabit then you know you are about to hit rockbottom |
i still say you and ciaranm should be userreps |
I'm game but you don't think the whole me pimping Fedora would kinda throw Gentoo users off a bit. |
You sell Fedora for sex? Now that's just wrong.
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Bob P
Advocate
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 3355
Location: Jackass! Development Labs
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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Am I the only person who is surprised by the abysmal turnout for the elections?
Out of the 96,825 registered users on the Gentoo Forums, a total of 477 votes were cast. Crunching the numbers, a total of 0.0049 of the registered users participated in the vote -- less than 1/2 of 1% of the Forum's registered users.
Given the rather insignificant number of votes that have been cast, its hard to place much statistical significance on the outcome of the elections. Sure votes are votes, but its important to remember that 99.5% of the Forum's registered users didn't even bother to vote. In some respects, one has to consider that the election was essentially a non-event. 
| cokehabit wrote: | | people have every right to say who they think is in the right and who they think is in the wrong and the fact that so many people have supported me in this ultimately shows that i was 100% the people's choice |
Cokehabit, my congratulations on having won the majority vote. You've clearly won, and you're definitely 100% the people's choice -- or should I say, 100% the choice of the 0.5% of the people who bothered to vote. 
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Last edited by Bob P on Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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enderandrew
l33t
Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Posts: 731
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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Honestly, I wasn't paying attention and missed the vote. However, there are probably 5 people on the list I'd vote for, and none of them are cokehabit.
There are no doubt a bunch of people who voted for him because he is a funny guy. I get that, but I imagine that the votes were split between so many more deserving candidates, that they all ended up suffering. A big part of the problem no doubt stems from having the vote here in Gentoo Chat, which favors those who post in this area.
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NeddySeagoon
Administrator
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 29996
Location: 56N 3W
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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enderandrew,
The vote was published in the GWN, and in /topic in #gentoo and #gentoo-uk
How else would users be contacted.
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NeddySeagoon
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Bob P
Advocate
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 3355
Location: Jackass! Development Labs
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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you've got a point there -- i don't spend time here anymore, and i can count the number of threads i've ever read in the Gentoo Chat forum on one hand. i was nominated, and i never even knew about the elections until i was asked to submit a personal profile for the elections. although Gentoo Chat is probably the appropriate forum for the voting, and although a few people participate here faithfully, it appears to be a forum that a majority of users don't bother to participate in.
i have to admit, i've seen alot of people with veteran status in this forum who's screen names i've never even seen before. in some respects, i guess Gentoo Chat is the new OTW. post here to bloat your postcount! 
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loki99
Advocate
Joined: 10 Oct 2003
Posts: 2056
Location: Vienna, €urope
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Bob P wrote: | Am I the only person who is surprised by the abysmal turnout for the elections?
Out of the 96,825 registered users on the Gentoo Forums, a total of 477 votes were cast. Crunching the numbers, a total of 0.0049 of the registered users participated in the vote -- less than 1/2 of 1% of the Forum's registered users.
Given the rather insignificant number of votes that have been cast, its hard to place much statistical significance on the outcome of the elections. Sure votes are votes, but its important to remember that 99.5% of the Forum's registered users didn't even bother to vote. In some respects, one has to consider that the election was essentially a non-event. |
And how significant is the total number of users that have ever registered? Does it tell us how many Gentoo users frequent the forums?
Of course the participation could have been higher, but it was the first time something like this has been tried and if the project succeeds, there will be a lot more votes for the userreps next year. |
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think4urs11
Administrator
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 6659
Location: above the cloud
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| loki99 wrote: | And how significant is the total number of users that have ever registered? Does it tell us how many Gentoo users frequent the forums?
Of course the participation could have been higher, but it was the first time something like this has been tried and if the project succeeds, there will be a lot more votes for the userreps next year. |
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-3496313.html#3496313
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christel
Retired Dev
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 64
Location: England
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| RuiP wrote: | hi,
well i confess that on my post i was not trying to hit or search the resons why so few users vote...
It just look to me that on a community famous for its size number and commitment of they users the most voted got only 65 votes (and for the specific purpose that votation was) sounds a little ridiculous.
The reasons for that results i haven't the faintest idea...
Linux users and Gentoo specially are people who like to do they things by themselfs.
If someone have a problem, want some specific feature or liked something changed he/she will more easilly make a thread on it, fill a bug report or contact some devs directly then inteact through some "user representative". I'm absolute sure about that.
Imho, most of the people simply fails to see the point for such nomination. Thats all. |
Maybe you would want to go read the role description and therefor get a better idea of how User Representatives will help us progressively do our job better. Your example above is only were we working purely on a reactional basis, which we are not. User Relations is a proactive project, not reactive. The role description can be found here: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/userrel/userrep.xml.
Incidentally, I was surprised at the low number of votes cast, although in retrospect we recognize that the forums may not have been the best place for holding the election, and next time around we will opt for a different system entirely that is fairer for the entire user base, as this time around a forums account was created and needless to state the majority of user representatives ended up being people who are active on the forums rather than elsewhere.
Also, allow me to stress on this thread too, that there is not only *one* user representative, you voted in 11, the list of which will be made available with contact information and such as soon as we have acceptance/declinations through from them all.
Again, the user representative initiative is not intended to replace any communication methods you already use and find work for you when dealing with Gentoo, you are still encouraged to use Bugzilla, to ask questions here, there and everywhere, to make suggestions and to communicate with those devs you already do communicate with. The user representatives are not intende to replace any other channels of communication, it would go entirely against the community feel of Gentoo should we enforce a "this is who you have to speak with" policy and it's not something that would benefit the project. They do however, provide us with a group of helpful users whom we can ask for feedback, advice and who mingle and participate in the community as *users* and therefor they are better able to present the users views and interests to us than say I am.
We do however recognize that the elections didn't bring us a balanced out group of userreps, and will still look at other ways of seeking feedback from users besides the userreps involvement too. I hope that clarifies a bit.
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occ
Apprentice
Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 202
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| christel wrote: |
Also, allow me to stress on this thread too, that there is not only *one* user representative, you voted in 11,
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We did ? As far as I know we voted for one each... the number '11' is fresh news to me, and as far as I can tell, has not been announced prior to the election.
I'm curious, how did you came up with that number ? It's not a certain % of vote (otherwise it would have been in {0,1,2,7,8,9,12,15,24}), it's no a nice round number of absolute vote (the cut-off is between 15 and 17, and cut off value are rarely excluded).
| christel wrote: |
We do however recognize that the elections didn't bring us a balanced out group of userreps
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According to what metric ?
In real life, elections also produce a very unbalanced group of peole, since they somehow always end-up in the election of politicians  |
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enderandrew
l33t
Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Posts: 731
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I thought they wanted multiple userreps.
So, wouldn't it make sense to allow us to vote for more than one userrep at once? Perhaps up to 5?
I suppose I need to subscribe to the weekly newsletter, but I generally just read the few areas of the forums that I am interested in.
I realize that cokehabit is going to get voted in no matter what, and I don't see the point of trying to complain about that. However, if there are going to be multiple userreps, I'd like to see fair elections for them. I recommend redoing the election and making it a GLOBAL STICKY that shows up in all areas of the forums.
Anyone with me?
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Kensai
Guru
Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Posts: 568
Location: Puerto Rico
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| Bob P wrote: | Am I the only person who is surprised by the abysmal turnout for the elections?
Out of the 96,825 registered users on the Gentoo Forums, a total of 477 votes were cast. Crunching the numbers, a total of 0.0049 of the registered users participated in the vote -- less than 1/2 of 1% of the Forum's registered users. |
Totally agree in 14 days almost 10,000 users visited the forums and just a very minimum 477 cared to vote, that is a true joke for a poll. Like I said before there has been many more votes on useless polls that weren't announced.
What this tell us?
People didn't cared about this election they felt no one in the list was worth winning so the election turned out to be "Hey let me vote for my friend, I don't know what this is about but who cares?" and "Hey vote for this guy he is my firend, please."
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Headrush
Watchman
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 5597
Location: Bizarro World
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| Kensai wrote: | Totally agree in 14 days almost 10,000 users visited the forums and just a very minimum 477 cared to vote, that is a true joke for a poll. Like I said before there has been many more votes on useless polls that weren't announced.
What this tell us?
People didn't cared about this election they felt no one in the list was worth winning so the election turned out to be "Hey let me vote for my friend, I don't know what this is about but who cares?" and "Hey vote for this guy he is my firend, please." |
Aren't a lot of elections like this? And don't most elections come down to popularity. (Names seen in the forum a lot, etc.)
My voice was heard, and with fewer voters my vote counted more, but still my choice lost.  |
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Kensai
Guru
Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Posts: 568
Location: Puerto Rico
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Headrush wrote: | Aren't a lot of elections like this? And don't most elections come down to popularity. (Names seen in the forum a lot, etc.)
My voice was heard, and with fewer voters my vote counted more, but still my choice lost. |
Thanks, you proved my point right.
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Q-collective
Advocate
Joined: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 2054
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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I love all the people who voted for me
And everyone else ofcourse. |
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runningwithscissors
Guru
Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 454
Location: the third world
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 3:24 am Post subject: |
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The election is over. No point in expressing displeasure at the choice of representatives. I didn't vote for cokehabit, but he was elected fair and square.
Also, this was a first attempt at choosing userreps. You can not expect the vast majority of forum members to be enthusiastic about such an endeavour right away. I am sure most just saw this as a kind of gimmick, which is sad, but that is how most things start. People usually take projects more seriously if they have a successful history behind them. I am not too disappointed by the low turnout. At least it gets us moving.
It is upto the users and their chosen representatives now to prove that this is not a hollow project. If we achieve something significant through it, we shall see a bigger turnout the next time a userrep election is held.
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christel
Retired Dev
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 64
Location: England
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:00 am Post subject: |
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| occ wrote: | | christel wrote: |
Also, allow me to stress on this thread too, that there is not only *one* user representative, you voted in 11,
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We did ? As far as I know we voted for one each... the number '11' is fresh news to me, and as far as I can tell, has not been announced prior to the election.
I'm curious, how did you came up with that number ? It's not a certain % of vote (otherwise it would have been in {0,1,2,7,8,9,12,15,24}), it's no a nice round number of absolute vote (the cut-off is between 15 and 17, and cut off value are rarely excluded).
It certainly was made public that we weren't after *one* user representative, even the role description makes it pretty clear that we were after a team.
Both the documentation made available by Mark Alec, the Userrel page, the GWN thread and the role description has referred to it as user representatives, not one single user representative.
| christel wrote: |
We do however recognize that the elections didn't bring us a balanced out group of userreps
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According to what metric ?
In real life, elections also produce a very unbalanced group of peole, since they somehow always end-up in the election of politicians |
By that I mean, we don't have them spread out as much as we'd like through the various groups. Presumably as a direct result of the voting happening on the forums we ended up with nearly all forums representatives (vs IRC, ML, GWN subs etc)
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christel
Retired Dev
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 64
Location: England
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:03 am Post subject: |
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| enderandrew wrote: | Well, I thought they wanted multiple userreps.
So, wouldn't it make sense to allow us to vote for more than one userrep at once? Perhaps up to 5?
I suppose I need to subscribe to the weekly newsletter, but I generally just read the few areas of the forums that I am interested in.
I realize that cokehabit is going to get voted in no matter what, and I don't see the point of trying to complain about that. However, if there are going to be multiple userreps, I'd like to see fair elections for them. I recommend redoing the election and making it a GLOBAL STICKY that shows up in all areas of the forums.
Anyone with me? |
This time around we will stick with the 11 that was voted in top, however, for the next election we will look at a entirely different system. We will make it fair on those users who don't use the forums and make sure we don't require a forums account to be able to vote as an example, we may also allow multiple votes.
In the meantime, should you have any problems with the way the user representatives do their job or represent you, the users, we would urge you to raise these concerns with userrel as soon as possible so that we can act accordingly and rectify any potential damage.
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christel
Retired Dev
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 64
Location: England
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:04 am Post subject: |
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| Kensai wrote: | | Bob P wrote: | Am I the only person who is surprised by the abysmal turnout for the elections?
Out of the 96,825 registered users on the Gentoo Forums, a total of 477 votes were cast. Crunching the numbers, a total of 0.0049 of the registered users participated in the vote -- less than 1/2 of 1% of the Forum's registered users. |
Totally agree in 14 days almost 10,000 users visited the forums and just a very minimum 477 cared to vote, that is a true joke for a poll. Like I said before there has been many more votes on useless polls that weren't announced.
What this tell us?
People didn't cared about this election they felt no one in the list was worth winning so the election turned out to be "Hey let me vote for my friend, I don't know what this is about but who cares?" and "Hey vote for this guy he is my firend, please." |
I think for the most part, people weren't all that interested. However, those nominated were all pretty decent people whom I believe will be more than capable of doing the job and setting the predescent for the next elections, where hopefully more users will see the benefits of voting.
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christel
Retired Dev
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 64
Location: England
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:05 am Post subject: |
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| runningwithscissors wrote: | The election is over. No point in expressing displeasure at the choice of representatives. I didn't vote for cokehabit, but he was elected fair and square.
Also, this was a first attempt at choosing userreps. You can not expect the vast majority of forum members to be enthusiastic about such an endeavour right away. I am sure most just saw this as a kind of gimmick, which is sad, but that is how most things start. People usually take projects more seriously if they have a successful history behind them. I am not too disappointed by the low turnout. At least it gets us moving.
It is upto the users and their chosen representatives now to prove that this is not a hollow project. If we achieve something significant through it, we shall see a bigger turnout the next time a userrep election is held. |
Very well said
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occ
Apprentice
Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 202
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| christel wrote: |
By that I mean, we don't have them spread out as much as we'd like through the various groups. Presumably as a direct result of the voting happening on the forums we ended up with nearly all forums representatives (vs IRC, ML, GWN subs etc) |
OK, I see.
Thanks for the clarification. |
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Bob P
Advocate
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 3355
Location: Jackass! Development Labs
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| christel wrote: | | This time around we will stick with the 11 that was voted in top, however, for the next election we will look at a entirely different system. |
In other words, we're all in agreement that the elections were a farce, and that they were such a dismal failure that this election paradigm will be abandoned for the future.
Putting the numbers into perspective: an insignificant number of users bothered to participate, and the number of total votes cast were low enough that voting fraud could easily have played a significant role in the outcome. When elections are decided by a small number of votes, anyone who seriously wants to effect the outcome of the election could easily register a bunch of new user accounts, vote, and significantly change the outcome, rendering the elections meaningless. (It would be interesting to know how many of the votes were cast from new user accounts, or accounts that have common IP addresses.)
The bottom line is that the lack of participation in the elections has created a rather embarassing situation for Gentoo. It should be evident to everyone that the Gentoo user base as a whole doesn't really care about the role of the User Representatives. I think its wishful thinking to believe that people will be knocking each other over to run in elections next year.
I have to admit, I'm still confused about what good the Gentoo User Representative is really supposed to accomplish for the community, and I was one of the people who was asked to run for the job. I decided not to run because I didn't understand what good I would be doing by acting as an added layer of beaurocracy between users and developers. In my simplistic way of looking at things, direct communication is better and there's no need for someone to stand between users and the developers acting as a buffer. In some respects, I got the impression that some of the Devs just don't care to interface with users, and were trying to shove some of their less pleasant responsibilities off onto someone else. I didn't have any interest in whitewashing Tom Sawyer's fence, so I declined the invitation to run for the office.
Maybe I'm wrong, and the the problem is that I'm still missing the point. I still don't understand the nature of the job and what good its really supposed to do for Gentoo. Could it be that the silent majority didn't bother to vote because they don't understand it either? Or is it just that nobody really cares?
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Enverex
Guru
Joined: 02 Jul 2003
Posts: 501
Location: Worcester, UK
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:15 am Post subject: |
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I can't say I had even noticed this thread to even vote in it although I also don't know any of the nominees well enough (or even at all to be perfectly honest) to cast a vote. That is one of the issues among many which is why it likely didn't work well.
People didn't notice the thread.
People didn't care about the thread.
People don't know what the user rep thing is about.
People don't know any of the nominees well enough to want to vote for any of them.
People don't care about the user rep system.
etc etc
But still, I'd have just have placed an anti-vote against Blackace, heh. |
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amne
Bodhisattva
Joined: 17 Nov 2002
Posts: 6377
Location: Graz / EU
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| Bob P wrote: | | When elections are decided by a small number of votes, anyone who seriously wants to effect the outcome of the election could easily register a bunch of new user accounts, vote, and significantly change the outcome, rendering the elections meaningless. (It would be interesting to know how many of the votes were cast from new user accounts, or accounts that have common IP addresses.) |
I'm not saying this is impossible on the forums if you know what to do, but we have some anti-spam stuff in place that may have picked up mass account creation for voting manipulation.
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loki99
Advocate
Joined: 10 Oct 2003
Posts: 2056
Location: Vienna, €urope
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| Bob P wrote: | | The bottom line is that the lack of participation in the elections has created a rather embarassing situation for Gentoo. It should be evident to everyone that the Gentoo user base as a whole doesn't really care about the role of the User Representatives. I think its wishful thinking to believe that people will be knocking each other over to run in elections next year. |
Why do you have such a negative attitude to this project? - Whether people will be more willing to participate next year, will definately depend on how well this project develops in the next twelve months. I think, it is a grand idea and hopefully it will improve the information flow in either direction.
My understanding of my role as userrep has nothing to do with being a buffer or an added layer of bureaucracy between users and developers. On the contrary, I see my role in helping to improve the communication between the two of them. Most users don't have the time to read through mailinglists or to hang out in IRC channels to catch the lastest news and developments in the dev community, some might not know who they should approach with certain issues they have and some users have expressed the feeling that their ideas for improvement are not being heard by the devs. The userreps should try to help those, who would like to get more involved but are having troubles doing so. We are not here to take anything away from you. If you have no problems communicating your stuff, fine! We won't bother you.
On the other hand, some of the devs might not have the time to read the forums regulary or to chat a lot with average users on a daily bases. If they want to know something about average joe, we could help them to get the information they are looking for.
| Bob P wrote: | | Maybe I'm wrong, and the the problem is that I'm still missing the point. I still don't understand the nature of the job and what good its really supposed to do for Gentoo. Could it be that the silent majority didn't bother to vote because they don't understand it either? |
You are right, the job describtion wasn't that detailed and the uncertainty of the role was one of the reasons for the low participation, but I see this as a challenge to develop this job into something, that will be useful so people will care more about it next year. |
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legine
Guru
Joined: 27 May 2004
Posts: 555
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I love all the people who voted for me
And everyone else ofcourse. |
YES! Someone loves me...
| Quote: | | The bottom line is that the lack of participation in the elections has created a rather embarassing situation for Gentoo. It should be evident to everyone that the Gentoo user base as a whole doesn't really care about the role of the User Representatives. I think its wishful thinking to believe that people will be knocking each other over to run in elections next year. |
All elections that are not enforced by guns money or other existance threating means are in general an embarasment.
So why you care? It is nothing new, and wont change soon.
| Quote: | can't say I had even noticed this thread to even vote in it although I also don't know any of the nominees well enough (or even at all to be perfectly honest) to cast a vote. That is one of the issues among many which is why it likely didn't work well.
People didn't notice the thread.
People didn't care about the thread.
People don't know what the user rep thing is about.
People don't know any of the nominees well enough to want to vote for any of them.
People don't care about the user rep system.
etc etc |
Yea. usually you have to massivly disencourage someone to take care of reading it. Like Stateing forbiddenvoteing or such things.
People who did not notice the thread dont read the newsletter, wich is in general a bad Idea.
People who dont care we should not care too.
People who dont know what the repthing is about dont ask or dont read.
Hmm first valid argument. We should add 2 Points to the vote. unsure and abstain.
again People who dont care we should not care too.
The answer to the etc. is it is theire own fault in missing all the true fun within the community why should we be impressed by that?
Have a happy voteing!
_________________
quote from Spaceballs:
Dark Helmet:[...] we were told to comb the desert, so we're combing it! [puts down bullhorn] Find anything yet?!
Soldier: Nothing yet, sir. |
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