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Dikkiedik
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Joined: 04 Oct 2004
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 Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah I agree  try helping me with TwinView instead.. I'm trying to figure out how I can swap the identification of monitors on dualhead sysems. BTW, mahdi, I love the fifth element
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-458256-highlight-.html
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The Mad Mahdi
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Joined: 31 Oct 2004
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Location: Northumberland, England, UK
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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Heh. Right on.
As regards TwinView, I'm afraid I can't help you, except to say that if you haven't already, it would be worth writing a brand new forum thread detailing the problem. Otherwise your request is bound to get buried down here... |
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InfoManiac
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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@ Labrador:
Hang in there! It's happening
Gentoo User Relations
Gentoo is concerned and wants to better improve it's relationship with the community because they realize what you are saying is true, and I cannot dis-agree with what you've said so far! No level headed person could.
@ everyone: Saying use another distro is un-acceptable regardless of how it is justified. The whole point of these distributions is to attract people to them, not say go F yourself you aren't elite like me, etc, etc.
You CANNOT just blow people off like that, it's just really horrible relations / support. You WANT more people to use Gentoo NOT less, because the more that use it, the more chances you have of someone wanting to become apart of your team and improving thing.
Linux in general, this distro. does not get a pass on this, has moved way beyond being a L33t OS to something that in a short amount of time could be a major competitor to Windows, like it or not that's where the Portland Project / standardizations groups / Novell / Redhat, etc. is taking it... and that's where it NEEDs to go! Face it it changed and you have to change with it! else you are just ice skating up-hill! 
Now a lack of resources is one thing, but pounding someone into the ground no matter how wrong or right anyone is just wrong! you need to at least be empathetic and let the person know your situation, which you did, but you pounded pretty hard on him, a couple people chimed in with a bunch of cursing (pretty un-called for).
@Labrador: I would suggest that, if you have any amount of spare time, that you become a member of this team I honestly believe you'd be a valuable asset, and would help move Gentoo is the right direction! I am considering it myself, but it's a matter of time and how much I can really dedicate towards this! 
Ok, now it's my turn for the whip, I've seen the replies so far.....so to borrow a phrase "FLAME ON!" (hee hee hee hee ) 
Been a flame war so far (yes it has, admit it) .
Hopefully it won't continue to be one, I just ask that we all just take a deep breath, relax the bowels, put aside the egos and be level headed, and it will be more productive. |
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Kensai
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Joined: 09 Mar 2004
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Location: Puerto Rico
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| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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Well, Gentoo is pretty much everything for everyone a jack of all trades and is more flexible than any other distribution I have used, but it cannot be completely everything to everyone. And somethings lack attention only time will tell if they are important enough to fix. I know there are lots of distros who specialize in this aspects in which gentoo lacks, but I know also that neither of them offer a flexible system as Gentoo do or lack in other important areas. So we should just stay using the distro we like (Gentoo in this case) and hope for this areas to get the needed attention.
I think we should keep recommending gentoo and nothing will make that change, all projects face down times and up times we just need to fight and encourage devs and users alike to make decisions which make does down times become up times. So is true recommending someone to just go away and use another distro because they complain for something they don't like is not good. We should find what we have in common with that person and just throw to the wastebasket what we don't.
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InfoManiac
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with that whole heartedly
You are preeching to the choir.
Hold faith, it will happen, just not right away, it looks like Gentoo is honestly trying, just the staffing (for lack of a better word) isn't there
But I agree (once again) just becuase you hit one bump in road, don't give up, the Gentoo devs are pretty good about quickly fixing the problems, and considering how many there are I am pretty impressed how fast they do this for the lack of devs they have versus how many they need.
I have a feeling that their involvement with google's summer of code (coming up pretty quickly here), will pull in a lot a devs and more people will get interested in this distro and whip it into shape (lyric from an 80's song by Divo? I think so!)  |
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InfoManiac
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:02 am Post subject: |
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I think labrador is a good candidate for Gentoo user relations
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-470136-start-25.html
Sorry if I seem assuming lab. don't mean to be, I honestly think you have completely valid points and can only help Gentoo to get better about addressing these type of problems.
I have submitted you for a nomination.
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Headrush
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Joined: 06 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| InfoManiac wrote: | | @ everyone: Saying use another distro is un-acceptable regardless of how it is justified. The whole point of these distributions is to attract people to them, not say go F yourself you aren't elite like me, etc, etc. |
Not necessarily true. Some distros are better suited for some people and some situations. That's not to say that something can't be done in Gentoo, but there can be better more efficient distros.
Example: I have used Gentoo on my desktop machine for years. When it came to my server which is fairly static in software, I wanted something that installed quickly and was easiest to adminster. I chose ClarkConnect. Sure I could have done it with Gentoo, I did, but it was more work then I wanted to spend on it. Same way for customers I install Linux for, I opt for PCLinuxOS. Its just more suited for a new users switching from Windows.
| InfoManiac wrote: | | Linux in general, this distro. does not get a pass on this, has moved way beyond being a L33t OS to something that in a short amount of time could be a major competitor to Windows, like it or not that's where the Portland Project / standardizations groups / Novell / Redhat, etc. is taking it... and that's where it NEEDs to go! Face it it changed and you have to change with it! else you are just ice skating up-hill! |
Gentoo will never be a major competitor to Windows. Maybe Linux in general will be, but a source based distro will never be the choice of the majority of "average" users.
InfoManiac, ease up buddy. Gentoo has it strengths and weaknesses, some of which will never change. The best two things remain its flexibility and its great Gentoo forums. You seem to be overly aggressive in many of your posts. We're all here to work together. |
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InfoManiac
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, someone who makes sense and is level headed (been through a meat grinder lately) my hats off to you
You make sense and I do not disagree about the pluses and minues in the distros, I just wish that instead of having to re-direct someone, that Gentoo could accomodate these things as well.
There is the argument of everything to everyone, mayy.....be ...possbile...especially with gentoo if divided into sub-projects and make these things modular. If done right this could suceed, I would think.
In regards to this distro not being the one that makes that the end user will use, yeah, I can see your point.....what regular end-user is going to wait for a compile, they don't care they want to use it.
However I hope that it would be a Major distribution, because it's got so many advantages. Hard to tell what the future road-map of Linux or any distro will fair when it comes to the end user and competing with Windows, becuase right now Linux is in a "wild west" phase and the dust hasn't even begun to settle yet.
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think4urs11
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Joined: 25 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| InfoManiac wrote: | | However I hope that it would be a Major distribution, because it's got so many advantages. Hard to tell what the future road-map of Linux or any distro will fair when it comes to the end user and competing with Windows, becuase right now Linux is in a "wild west" phase and the dust hasn't even begun to settle yet. |
Why do you insist permanently (and a bit aggressive at times) on the necessity for Gentoo (or Linux as a whole) to compete with windows?
There is a place for Windows, Linux, Mac OS-X, *BSD etc. in the world of today as will be in the world of tomorrow acutally - no need to compete at all.
On the contrary - with the way it is we have a win-win situation. Microsoft can't dare do produce a bad Windows due to the huge number of contendors and all the 'little players' can implement new ideas very quickly and force MS to react again by getting better....
But neither one of them can ever achieve to be 'the best on all edges', this is just an illusion which (mostly windows-biased) users have.
It is all about choice - you are free to choose the best OS for the tasks you want to solve with it plus (inside the OSS scene) you do have the choice for much finer graded tuning by taking one out of 100 distributions and within that among 10 different apps for the task itself and maybe 5 different ways to solve your problem the way which fits best.
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enderandrew
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Joined: 25 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:58 am Post subject: |
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If Windows Vista stinks it up, it will be lost revenue that was spent developing the beast. However, people will still line up for the next iteration of Windows after that, which may be designed from the ground up.
Microsoft has an almost insurmountable market share, incredible name recognition, and is the exclusive OS shipped by most PC retailers.
When average consumer buys a PC, they get a Windows license. Even if they format their drive and install Gentoo tomorrow, Microsoft already got paid, and they aren't disappearing. I agree that Gentoo doesn't have to take on Windows. Each serves their purpose.
With that being said, I think that the non-Windows world could do things much better, not only to gain market share, but to put out better products for their existing base of users.
1 - The *Nix based OSes use a directory structure from the stone ages. I know that there are plenty of people who assume that if you do anything like Windows you are wrong, but frankly, I don't see why we can't have a much more simplified layout of a file system. God forbid people navigate intuitively towards what they are looking for.
/bin /boot /config /home /logs /src /sys /tmp
Doesn't that really cover the important bases? Where is /proc /dev and such you say? In the /sys folder. What about backwards compatibility? How would we switch when programs are currently looking for such and such folder?
Symlinks. Or hell, patch for the new directory structure and recompile.
2 - Standards. We have slowly been moving towards desktop standards which is good. But there is so much room for improvement. Why is it so difficult to get a Linux app to work in BSD? Why are .RPMS different from one distro to the next? Why are config files for the OS in different locations from one distro to the next?
3 - Choice is good, but don't duplicate work unnecessarily - One person likes the look of Gnome. Another KDE, and another Fluxbox. That is great. But is there really a good reason why apps have to be split down the GTK and QT lines? We have two very talented teams working seperately on two different apps that do the exact same thing? For every Gaim there is a Koepete. Both are great. Kudos to both teams, seriously. But neither are 100% where they want to be. Why do twice the work?
Let KDE and Gnome have separate user interfaces. But development libraries need to be standard as much as possible across the board.
4 - An OS is only as good as the programs available for it. - Microsoft caters to developers in the Windows world. They're no fools. Despite their commanding market share, they push development tools and platforms for a reason. With the console market, they cater to developers again, and though I hate to admit it, they may very likely become the console market leader this generation as both Japanese developers, and guys like RockStar jump ship to Microsoft.
If alternate OSes are to succeed, they need great programs to run on them. I think that the *nix world has made HUGE strides over the past few years. Major companies are dumping big dollars into the OSS world. I love that. But the fact remains that most programs are Windows only. Both the *nix-verse and Macs need to support running Windows apps to truly get people to switch. We have Wine, and Macs have dual-booting. Both are moving in this direction for a reason, but need to continue down that path.
Both need strong developer tools. Both need to entice developers to learn how to program for their platforms. I don't know a whole lot of programmers excited about learning QT4. Why not? If the world can adopt a huge viral marketing campaign like Get Firefox, then they can do the same for QT4.
It also shouldn't be a pain distributing your app to the world. There needs to be one installation standard for binary apps, and one for source-based distribution. Both methods need to handle uninstall information, icons, menu entries, dependencies, the works.
Personally, I think Suse, Fedora, Mandriva, Ubuntu, Debian, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, etc. etc. all need to agree on one standard for .RPM packages. They should also agree on one method for obtaining them, be it apt-get, or whatever.
If there were one library for apps, then the library would be that much larger. Again, don't unnecessarily replicate work. One developer from the Red Hat team throws up the latest glibc package, and the Suse guys don't have to do the same, unless they want to release a different version with different patches.
I could go on and on.
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filterpunk
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Joined: 18 Jun 2006
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Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| Think4UrS11 wrote: |
Why do you insist permanently (and a bit aggressive at times) on the necessity for Gentoo (or Linux as a whole) to compete with windows?
There is a place for Windows, Linux, Mac OS-X, *BSD etc. in the world of today as will be in the world of tomorrow acutally - no need to compete at all.. |
The short of it is because many users need it to, on some level. We use computers to have fun and/or get work done - however broken, all the bases are largely covered on Windows and OS X. While it could be argued that the same goes for Linux, it's dependent on the individual user. For some people, GIMP is more than adequate for their needs. For myself, it's a usability nightmare and regardless of its ability, I can never seem to feel comfortable with it and get anything done (this is just my own example - if you love GIMP, more power to ya).
From my own perspective, i'm the sort of person who doesn't like being forced into things and told what to do by some so-called "authority." I've been using Windows since 3.1 and many of the idiotic quirks and annoyances that were present then are still present today. So along comes Linux, whatever your flavor of it. Suddenly, choice is a factor, and I don't have to put up with Microsoft or Apple shoving programs down my throat that I don't want to use. We've all heard this sort of scenario before, because it's echoed by thousands of users around the world. In making that choice, I accept and acknowledge that there are certain deficiencies or oddities i'll have to get used to. It's a community-based effort though, so what right do I have to bitch?
Quite honestly, I have every right. That doesn't mean I lack respect for the countless developers and individuals who work hard on their respective projects, but it does mean that I would like to see certain things happen that make my experience using Linux better all-around. Some people have a very knee-jerk reaction to anyone being critical of an open-source/free software project, but I think we'd see a lot more progress all-around if people took it in stride and considered the issue a user is trying to put on the table. I chose to use Linux and accept that things take time, developers choose to work on Linux and accept that said work will be scrutinized by the commmunity that's using it.
On a related note, what concerns me is that in trying to be accomodating and "compete with Windows", developers of various projects are treading down the same path as Windows, implementing many of the types of things that Windows users have hated all these years. Frankly, i'd love to see more projects focus on pragmatic designs and usability, not repeating the mistakes of commercial operating systems just because people expect it.
Maybe i'm off base or way outta line, but that's my .02 on the situation in general. |
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enderandrew
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Joined: 25 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 3:19 am Post subject: |
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That is why it is so important for other OSes to run the existing apps you love on Windows.
Photoshop runs great on a Mac. And from what I understand, it runs on Linux under CrossOver Office.
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Kensai
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 3:51 am Post subject: |
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Fact is I love more Linux than Windoze and I use Linux 95% of the time I just boot to Windoze for just 1 app that does not compile on wine yet once this unique app is installable via wine I'll leave Windows forever. So we don't need to copy windows as some of you are saying here. We need to be unique, and who cares if windoze still dominates?
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enderandrew
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 4:08 am Post subject: |
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What is that app?
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Kensai
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| enderandrew wrote: | | What is that app? |
Well is a Bible research and study application, from my religion, I know there are some apps for Linux that does this but trust me they are not as advance as this is because it lets me search whatever I want to know about and it shows me text o the bible which are related to what I search and commentary by my religion people which study on this, as well as from writers from all over the world and writers from the past, Like Josephus. So what makes it unique is that does not only represent the views of my religion, it represents the view of christians from the first age to our days as we make the best effort to keep true to the bible nothing more and nothing less everything comes from the bible and a great research of it.
So when this app is installable via wine I'll drop windows forever.
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enderandrew
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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Have you tried Cedega or Crossover Office to get it to install?
You could always submit a bugreport to the Wine developers and see if they can help you out.
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Myst
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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I just got here  |
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enderandrew
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Joined: 25 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:12 am Post subject: |
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I ran across a Linux distro that completely threw the FHS out the Window, and used a very simple, streamlined file structure. Would anyone know what I'm talking about?
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Kensai
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| enderandrew wrote: | | I ran across a Linux distro that completely threw the FHS out the Window, and used a very simple, streamlined file structure. Would anyone know what I'm talking about? |
Gobo Linux Though I find it too hard to use, I mean after using gentoo yeah you can use it but is not even fun reading about it I believe is to hard because it isn't even interesting.
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enderandrew
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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I had just found it again before you responded.
I don't intend to convert or jump ship to it anytime soon. I love emerge/portage/use, etc. I like quite a few things about Gentoo. I was just curious about reading the particular file structure they used, as well as what symlinks and scripts they used to pull it off.
I'm considering how I would do it myself. I am also reading over the FHS 2.3 doc, which is quite boring.
Maybe I'll do something crazy like draft up a proposal and try sending it to some mailing lists, and maybe Slashdot. Lord knows I'll only get flamed, but what the heck. Part of the reason that there are so many folders in the root supposedly (according to FHS standards is that they cater to folders that can be mounted on different places and filesystems, some of which are static (can be mounted in a readonly environment) and some are sharable and others aren't. Right now I'm thinking:
/Apps
/bin /usr/bin /sbin and disappear and now programs go right into this folder.
/Programs sounds too close to Winblows if you ask me - but I would follow the Gobo method to an extent.
For instance, /apps/kde - kde settings /apps/kde/3.0/blah /apps/kde/3.5/blah - so on and so forth
/Devices
/mount /media /proc /dev and the like would go under here
/Logs
Much of /var can go here.
/Shared
/System - /boot /lib /etc /var - Infact I don't really see why /etc and /var are two separate directories. I'd go
/System/Boot /System/Lib /System/Config
/Temp
/Users
The new Home. It isn't /Home, because when possible, I want these folders to have different first letters, and to use
capitals, to allow for easy auto-completion at the command line. And /root should go here as well like any other
user.
What do you think?
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Kensai
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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I personally don't see a reason to change the current directory hierarchy, "If it ain't broken don't fix it"
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Chaosite
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, the current system makes a whole lot of sense. Especially when you consider people who use LVM, NFS, multiple drives, or other "interesting" partition schemes. It also makes sense in regards to security.
/home
homedirs go here. Usually, this partition is the one you want to have the best back-up plan for. RAID5, the works.
/usr (including /usr/bin, /usr/lib, /usr/share, and friends)
General programs, libraries, and the files they use go here. This should probably be on a fast disk, and backups are less important because this can be reconstructed at will. Might as well make it a RAID0. Also, this can be read-only except when installing updates or new programs.
/etc
Program configurations. Speed isn't that important for this directory, and you can have a more relaxed backup scheme for it since it doesn't change much. Also, can be mounted read-only except when making changes to the configuration (except if you plan to regularly add new users, and not use something like LDAP).
/bin, /sbin, /lib
System programs, stuff that is needed for boot. You need /bin/mount, for example. Also makes recovery possible if for some reason /usr isn't mountable. Can't be a seperate partition.
/var
Daemon's run-time storage. Things like log files, mail storage, websites, and the like. This directory gets written to a lot, and it contains user data so it needs a good back up scheme too. It can't be mounted read only.
/opt
Not quite sure what this is used for in other distrobutions, but in Gentoo its used for binary programs. This could be merged with /usr, but seperation in this matter isn't that bad an idea (stuff in /opt is staticaly linked, too).
/root
The root user's home directory. Needs to be here because you want to be able to access it when /home isn't mounted.
/sys, /proc, /dev
Kernel<->Userspace interfaces. They're virtual filesystems anyway (except /dev, but its a ramdisk here), they don't matter that much.
As you can see, theres a functional seperation between the dirs. The system can survive some of them being mounted and some not. You can go and reinvent the wheel, but somewhere along the lines you'll have to solve the same problems and are doomed to reinvent the same thing (With prettier names, perhaps).
Also, I seriously dislike enderandrew's scheme. Device nodes and mount points in the same dir? Root's homedir with the rest of the users' (So what do I do if /Users isn't mounted)? Where should you store mail, in /System? Also, now I can't make /Apps a seperate partition, because the things I need to mount partitions are in there... |
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enderandrew
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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/Dev /Mount and /Proc would be subdirectories.
I convinced my wife to switch to Linux. She installed an app. Guess what? It wasn't in her Kicker Menu. She didn't know where it went. She asked me which directory it was in. /bin /usr/bin /sbin /opt Who knows? It was a hassle. She wants her computer to work and make sense. In a matter of two weeks she went from being very enthusiastic about learning Linux to despising it. She is back to Windows x64 on her laptop. I've kept a 40 gig partition free to try and install Linux again, she is very wary.
For most people, they want to pick up their computer, and have it work in a logical, intuitive manner.
Not knowing where the hell a program installed to, or how to start it? That's just plain silly. Given the redundancy and counter-intuitive nature, I'd say it is broken.
You say you wouldn't mount /home while doing a recovery? 9 times out of 10, people will want /Home on a separate, protected partition with the best backup scheme. Programs can be reinstalled, but this is arguably the most important folder there is. Having the root user's home folder there not only makes sense from a purely logical standpoint, but it is safest there.
Why keep system files in /lib /opt /var and /etc? That makes as much sense as /bin /usr/bin /sbin and /opt for binaries.
The purpose of the /var folder was that it had to be dynamic, and can't be read only. That's fine. You also can't share the folder. In my proposed /System folder, it would be dynamic data that couldn't be shared and you can consolidate and better organize.
I guarantee you that if Microsoft was holding to standards over 30 years old for no good reason, they would be absolutely lambasted for it.
I don't know why people insist in the GNU/Linux world that their way is inherently perfect and can't be improved upon. 30 years is practically centuries when you consider the rate at which software and hardware evolves.
When this file structure was invented, no one ever considered that it would be used on everything from home PCs (absolutely unthought of at the time) to embedded devices, to massive servers.
When Apple streamlines something to a very simple, intuitive design, people call them geniuses. People copy their design philosophies left and right. But suggest that the Linux was isn't perfect in any sense, and people refuse to acknowledge it.
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Kensai
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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Please don't tell me you installed Gentoo Linux on her laptop.
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Chaosite
Guru
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 540
Location: Right over here.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| enderandrew wrote: | | /Dev /Mount and /Proc would be subdirectories. |
So basically... You're keeping the same system, just moving a subdirectory down. Fine, I guess... A bit pointless in my opinion.
| enderandrew wrote: | | I convinced my wife to switch to Linux. She installed an app. Guess what? It wasn't in her Kicker Menu. She didn't know where it went. She asked me which directory it was in. /bin /usr/bin /sbin /opt Who knows? It was a hassle. She wants her computer to work and make sense. In a matter of two weeks she went from being very enthusiastic about learning Linux to despising it. She is back to Windows x64 on her laptop. I've kept a 40 gig partition free to try and install Linux again, she is very wary. |
This is a problem, agreed. But its not the directory structures fault. If the same were to happen in Windows (a program not creating a shortcut in the start menu), would your wife have known what to do? C:\Program Files\ is a huge unintuitive mess too, you know. The solution is for GUI programs to properly install shortcuts. Most program do, if you found one that doesn't, file a bug.
| enderandrew wrote: | | For most people, they want to pick up their computer, and have it work in a logical, intuitive manner. |
Its very logical. It is the way it is because it solves real world problems. IMO, nothing is really intuitive. I have gotten used to Gentoo, and therefor find the system very intuitive. I'd agree that it does have a learning curve, but then again everything does.
| enderandrew wrote: | | Not knowing where the hell a program installed to, or how to start it? That's just plain silly. Given the redundancy and counter-intuitive nature, I'd say it is broken. |
It is redundant, but it provides seperation. The different folders do have different meanings.
/bin - Things that are required to boot, and core system programs (ls, mount, su)
/usr/bin - General applications (gimp, X, firefox)
/usr/local/bin - Things that have been installed by the user and are not managed by the package manager. I usually put my scripts there.
same for /sbin, except that is for programs only the superuser should run (adduser, addgroup...)
Also, why do you care where a program is installed in? Your PATH enviroment variable should include all places where applications reside, so all you have to do is type the name of the program. This goes for GUI users as well, as they can use KDE's "Run..." option from the menu (Or Gnome's, or whatever). If you don't know the name of the program, then you're screwed, yes, but changing the directory structure won't change that. Also, this is not a proper solution. The correct one is to install the Kicker shortcut.
| enderandrew wrote: | | You say you wouldn't mount /home while doing a recovery? 9 times out of 10, people will want /Home on a separate, protected partition with the best backup scheme. Programs can be reinstalled, but this is arguably the most important folder there is. Having the root user's home folder there not only makes sense from a purely logical standpoint, but it is safest there. |
My point exactly. Consider the case where /home has become corrupt for some reason, and I wish to replace it from back-up. If /root were to be kept in home, I wouldn't have access to it while performing the recovery. The idea is to make the system operate even if somehow I managed to lose /home.
| enderandrew wrote: | | Why keep system files in /lib /opt /var and /etc? That makes as much sense as /bin /usr/bin /sbin and /opt for binaries. |
Basically, what you're doing here is grouping different things under the umbrella terms "system files" and "binaries". They are different things - a library is not a configuration file. You can't edit it. They have different usage patterns and different purposes.
| enderandrew wrote: | | The purpose of the /var folder was that it had to be dynamic, and can't be read only. That's fine. You also can't share the folder. In my proposed /System folder, it would be dynamic data that couldn't be shared and you can consolidate and better organize. |
Yes, but why is it system? It contains user data, such as emails.
| enderandrew wrote: | | I guarantee you that if Microsoft was holding to standards over 30 years old for no good reason, they would be absolutely lambasted for it. |
Absolutely. And they are getting regularly bashed for it. But throwing away standards just because they are old is stupid too. Or would you like to say goodbye to things like TCP/IP? You should note that IP does have a succesor - IPv6. Also note that IPv6 takes IPv4's shortcomings into consideration, and solves them, and does not simply ignore the reasons why IPv4 came to be in the first place.
| enderandrew wrote: | | I don't know why people insist in the GNU/Linux world that their way is inherently perfect and can't be improved upon. 30 years is practically centuries when you consider the rate at which software and hardware evolves. |
We don't say its perfect. We say its better than anything else we've seen yet.
| enderandrew wrote: | | When this file structure was invented, no one ever considered that it would be used on everything from home PCs (absolutely unthought of at the time) to embedded devices, to massive servers. |
And isn't it great how well this file structure coping with all these changes? Wouldn't you agree that this shows how flexible and robust it is?
| enderandrew wrote: | | When Apple streamlines something to a very simple, intuitive design, people call them geniuses. People copy their design philosophies left and right. But suggest that the Linux was isn't perfect in any sense, and people refuse to acknowledge it. |
What you're offering is a solution in search of a problem, IMO. Also, the problems that you have shown with the current system have other, better solutions in my opinion. |
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