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| Should Forum Posts be "Share and Share Alike"? |
| Yes |
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| No |
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| Total Votes : 29 |
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cokehabit
Advocate
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3302
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 Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:18 pm Post subject: Should Forum Posts be "Share and Share Alike"? |
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I have just been informed that we all have the copyright over our posts made on the forums. I think it is neither in the spirit of Gentoo, the spirit of GNU, nor the spirit of the community.
Do you think people should have to agree (with a checkbox) to the Creative Commons Share and Share Alike to be able to post? I certainly dont want to be worried that by using something on this forum I may be violating someone's copyright. |
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ciaranm
Retired Dev
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 1719
Location: In Hiding
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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No. Two reasons:
1. Sometimes we paste GPLed or public domain code in forum posts. Think GLEPs in particular, which are supposedly supposed to be posted to the forums as well as gentoo-dev (hah).
2. Most of what is said here isn't copyrightable. |
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codergeek42
Bodhisattva
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 5142
Location: Anaheim, CA (USA)
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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I was under the impression that we post here was essentially public domain (unless otherwise mentioned, such as posting GPL'd code, etc.)
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loki99
Advocate
Joined: 10 Oct 2003
Posts: 2054
Location: Vienna, €urope
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:32 pm Post subject: Re: Should Forum Posts be "Share and Share Alike"? |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | I have just been informed that we all have the copyright over our posts made on the forums. |
We do?  |
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amne
Administrator
Joined: 17 Nov 2002
Posts: 6374
Location: Graz / EU
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| ciaranm wrote: | | Think GLEPs in particular, which are supposedly supposed to be posted to the forums as well as gentoo-dev (hah). |
| GLEP 1 wrote: |
The author of the GLEP is then responsible for posting the GLEP to the gentoo-dev mailing list and to the Gentoo Linux forums [7], and marshaling community support for it.
[..]
A GLEP that has not been discussed on gentoo-dev@gentoo.org and/or the Gentoo Linux forums [7] will not be accepted. |
So no one is forced to post a glep to the forums AND gentoo-dev. The main point in my opinion is community support.
Plus the glep is only informational anyway.
edit: And btw, some things get done by themselves: About GWN's GLEP 42 "Critical Info" topic 
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ChristyMcJesus
Apprentice
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 184
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Copyright is a GOOD thing. It is only because we hold copyright over our works that we are able to apply licences - such as the GPL - to them. If it weren't for copyright everything would be public domain and licenses would be unenforcable. |
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cokehabit
Advocate
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3302
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| ciaranm wrote: | No. Two reasons:
1. Sometimes we paste GPLed or public domain code in forum posts. Think GLEPs in particular, which are supposedly supposed to be posted to the forums as well as gentoo-dev (hah).
2. Most of what is said here isn't copyrightable. |
There is a difference between what people are saying and what people post. If people post other people's work then it is not gentoo's fault. All posts for documentation, tips and tricks, other help and chat should all be under a free license. |
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cokehabit
Advocate
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3302
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| ChristyMcJesus wrote: | | Copyright is a GOOD thing. It is only because we hold copyright over our works that we are able to apply licences - such as the GPL - to them. If it weren't for copyright everything would be public domain and licenses would be unenforcable. |
and what is wrong with that? |
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effloresce
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 109
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Who cares. |
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ciaranm
Retired Dev
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 1719
Location: In Hiding
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | ChristyMcJesus wrote: | | Copyright is a GOOD thing. It is only because we hold copyright over our works that we are able to apply licences - such as the GPL - to them. If it weren't for copyright everything would be public domain and licenses would be unenforcable. |
and what is wrong with that? |
Learn your history! |
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loki99
Advocate
Joined: 10 Oct 2003
Posts: 2054
Location: Vienna, €urope
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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Please excuse my ignorance, but what does that mean practically?
Jurisprudence really is one of my least intrests. |
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cokehabit
Advocate
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3302
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| ciaranm wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | ChristyMcJesus wrote: | | Copyright is a GOOD thing. It is only because we hold copyright over our works that we are able to apply licences - such as the GPL - to them. If it weren't for copyright everything would be public domain and licenses would be unenforcable. |
and what is wrong with that? |
Learn your history! |
we're talking posts here, not programs though. You cant post a program to a forum unless you post all of the code (wich when it is GPL they will be able to see anyway)
| loki99 wrote: | Please excuse my ignorance, but what does that mean practically?
Jurisprudence really is one of my least intrests. |
Basically you are the copyright holder of all of what you say on these forums. They are your property, you own them. This means they are not in the public domain and for anyone to use, this also means that (theoretically) they could be removed if you so wished. Basically if you see someone posting exactly the same info as you have posted then you can sue them (theoretically). |
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loki99
Advocate
Joined: 10 Oct 2003
Posts: 2054
Location: Vienna, €urope
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | Basically you are the copyright holder of all of what you say on these forums. They are your property, you own them. This means they are not in the public domain and for anyone to use, this also means that (theoretically) they could be removed if you so wished. Basically if you see someone posting exactly the same info as you have posted then you can sue them (theoretically). |
I can recall someone asking for having all his posts removed but it was refuse by the allmighty pjp.
Does that mean pjp could be sued?  |
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cokehabit
Advocate
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3302
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| loki99 wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | Basically you are the copyright holder of all of what you say on these forums. They are your property, you own them. This means they are not in the public domain and for anyone to use, this also means that (theoretically) they could be removed if you so wished. Basically if you see someone posting exactly the same info as you have posted then you can sue them (theoretically). |
I can recall someone asking for having all his posts removed but it was refuse by the allmighty pjp.
Does that mean pjp could be sued? |
well... Yeah |
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abaelinor
n00b
Joined: 27 Aug 2005
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:24 am Post subject: |
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aa
Last edited by abaelinor on Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
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allucid
Veteran
Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 1314
Location: atlanta
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:39 am Post subject: |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | loki99 wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | Basically you are the copyright holder of all of what you say on these forums. They are your property, you own them. This means they are not in the public domain and for anyone to use, this also means that (theoretically) they could be removed if you so wished. Basically if you see someone posting exactly the same info as you have posted then you can sue them (theoretically). |
I can recall someone asking for having all his posts removed but it was refuse by the allmighty pjp.
Does that mean pjp could be sued? |
well... Yeah |
Perhaps not. You can edit your own posts. |
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theMerge
Apprentice
Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 155
Location: Little Elm, TX
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:42 am Post subject: |
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You know how much I've made on all my many words of wisdom shared with each one of you. So in the spirit of kindness and friendship...
Don't touch! Don't touch! Don't touch! Don't touch!
I would LOVE to see a court case come out of this.
| Quote: | | My client's property rights have been infringed! His comments on how Emacs owns vi have been shamefully stolen and missused! |
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Flammie
Developer
Joined: 02 Jun 2003
Posts: 633
Location: United States of Europe, Finland, Helsinki
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| Don't copyright laws include a right to citations? Also, doesn't copyright only apply to works that are long enough to demonstrate originality and uniqueness? |
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energyman76b
Advocate
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 2005
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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all this copyright hype makes me sick.
What happened to 'fair use'?
And why is a copyright needed for something so profane like a forums post?
Does anybody here post his poetry?
When I talk to someone, do I have to agree on a lizence? He could tape it, or write about it later?
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...'people' - had to clean it up to not be offensive...
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cokehabit
Advocate
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3302
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| thats what was getting me, there seems to be no sense of lets make everything here free |
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wdreinhart
Guru
Joined: 11 Jun 2003
Posts: 565
Location: icbm://40.450,-106.806
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| energyman76b wrote: | | And why is a copyright needed for something so profane like a forums post? |
It's not. However, in the US at least, everything you write is *automatically* copyrighted. It's much easier to stamp forum posts with a non-restrictive license (can be done in the site TOS) than to put them all in the public domain (requires real paper to be signed).
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ciaranm
Retired Dev
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 1719
Location: In Hiding
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| wdreinhart wrote: | | energyman76b wrote: | | And why is a copyright needed for something so profane like a forums post? |
It's not. However, in the US at least, everything you write is *automatically* copyrighted. It's much easier to stamp forum posts with a non-restrictive license (can be done in the site TOS) than to put them all in the public domain (requires real paper to be signed). |
Not exactly... Your post, for example, probably didn't contain any copyrightable material, given that it was a) short, b) posted to a public forum and c) didn't say anything of special merit. |
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wdreinhart
Guru
Joined: 11 Jun 2003
Posts: 565
Location: icbm://40.450,-106.806
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| ciaranm wrote: | | Not exactly... Your post, for example, probably didn't contain any copyrightable material, given that it was a) short, b) posted to a public forum and c) didn't say anything of special merit. |
http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#wwp Doesn't mention a minimum length or any requirement that a work have "special merit". Since it doesn't consist entirely of information that is common property, I think it is copyrightable (and so is yours, I hope you don't mind that I quoted it  ).
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cokehabit
Advocate
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3302
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| i'm suing you all for posting in my thread |
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ciaranm
Retired Dev
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 1719
Location: In Hiding
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| wdreinhart wrote: | | ciaranm wrote: | | Not exactly... Your post, for example, probably didn't contain any copyrightable material, given that it was a) short, b) posted to a public forum and c) didn't say anything of special merit. |
http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#wwp Doesn't mention a minimum length or any requirement that a work have "special merit". Since it doesn't consist entirely of information that is common property, I think it is copyrightable (and so is yours, I hope you don't mind that I quoted it ). |
The list there is stuff which is of "special merit". Also see the following section, second bullet point.
And, uh, quoting short posts is most definitely fair use. |
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