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dunbar
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2002 12:19 pm    Post subject: Why not use ReiserFS? Reply with quote

I just read the ReiserFS warning at http://www.gentoo.org/doc/build.html .

I'm wondering exactly what the problems are between 2.4.X kernels and ReiserFS. :?:

The last 30 or so of my (Mandrake) installs were onto ReiserFS with kernels of 2.4.X, and those installs also died due to stupid file system related problems.... Maybe I saw some of the reason why the build page says to avoid ReiserFS??

I've never heard of problems with Reiser - everyone says 'Reiser is the best choice, never had a problem'...

If anyone could substantiate the Gentoo warning with some kind of data, I'd appreciate knowing about it.
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fuxored
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2002 1:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Why not use ReiserFS? Reply with quote

dunbar wrote:

The last 30 or so of my (Mandrake) installs were onto ReiserFS with kernels of 2.4.X, and those installs also died due to stupid file system related problems....
.

And your still looking for a reason not to use reiser? :?:
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dunbar
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2002 5:12 pm    Post subject: Always one in every crowd.... Reply with quote

:lol: ROTFL! :lol: ....HeHeHe... *phew*!

[1]I'm a newbie;
[2]I might have done something to cause this to myself;
[3]Maybe Mandrakes famous installer is coming unglued;
[4]I found a ground wire had fallen out of one hard disk power connector (there are 2 wires, so why that matters is beyond me);
[5]I have an old mobo purchased from a dealer which is known to purchase less than perfect goods;
[6]hard disk drives are known to fail, is one of mine failing?;
[n-1]I had a blown RPM database when done some of those installs;
[n]chipsets, sdram, used processors, so many ways for things to fail;

And to quote Arthur C. Clarke: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". (Also known as the newbie anthem, no?)


Repeat:
Quote:

I'm wondering exactly what the problems are between 2.4.X kernels and ReiserFS.

Which is to say, exactly how does Reiser mess things up?

Can you give me examples of what the end results of the problems are?
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kosh
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2002 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have certainly not noticed any reiserfs problems. I used it back during the 2.2.x days with mandrake and the patches they had and later on with debian with 2.4.x. I have servers and desktops here used for squid, zope serving and general desktop stuff. I have pushed most of them pretty hard at various times and have never seen a problem on any of them.

Most of them are amd chips running on various via boards however there are some intel chips also. All of the kernels I have used are ones that I built from source myself. With 2.2.x I used to download the patches from namesys and put them onto the kernel. It seems reiserfs is currently up to date on 2.4.x kernels however for a while with linus maintaining the 2.4.x kernel he got behind on a lot of patches that caused all kinds of problems.

With linus doing maintanance he was months behind on vm patches, ide patches, various file system patches so for a while there on 2.4.x I did grab patches from namesys also.

Overall from what I can see if you actually want a stable kernel along with the stuff in it you have to wait until linus is no longer maintaining it or you have to hunt down various patches yourself that he is very late in applying otherwise you will have problems with various things.
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dunbar
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2002 2:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Always one in every crowd.... Reply with quote

dunbar wrote:

Can you give me examples of what the end results of the problems are?



Bump

I hope there is some actual reason for Gentoo making the statement at http://www.gentoo.org/doc/build.html :

"However, we do not recommend ReiserFS at this time, due to repeated occurances of file-system corruption with the 2.4.x series kernels."
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delta407
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2002 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a reason -- some people have had ReiserFS blow up on them. But then again, there have been people that have had ext3 break (<GASP>). ReiserFS isn't considered "perfect" yet, and the kernel maintainers don't feel it has had enough shakedown time. But, I can tell you that I (and many others) have been running ReiserFS on production machines for months without any problems and with large speed increases.

Corruption can happen, yes, and fsck for Reiser isn't nearly as mature as fsck for ext_, but it's been solid for me on a large number of machines. Of course... your mileage may vary.
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dunbar
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2002 11:15 am    Post subject: Sigh.... Reply with quote

What KIND of corruption??

Wrong permissions?
Bad symlinks?
Garbage in files (happy faces, ascii art, foreign characters)?
I need data, not polarity. Even if all you can do is send me to another site, I'd appreciate it.

If anyone has something a little more definitive than "it breaks", feel free to post here and then send me PM, 'cuz I'm going to lose track of this thread. FWIW, "Notify me when a reply is posted" setting is now set to send me a message, but that email account is heavily spammed, so I tend to delete all messages before I read them.

I am interested because my current mobo, FIC VB-601-V (VIA, not intel chipset) has had soooooooo many problems which center around files and data structures that I begin to wonder if the IDE subsection is defective in some way. 90% of my 60+ Mandrake installs have been file system related errors, the other 10% were directly attributable to my bad choices.

If the mobo is generating all of the foo, I won't pass the mobo on to someone else, but if Reiser is the cause of my foo, then I can hardly blame the mobo for all of the errors.
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delta407
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2002 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ask [url]google.com/linux[/url]. Some quick googling resulted with:

Quote:
(a) Metadata correctly written, file data correctly written.
(b) Metadata correctly written, file data partially written.
(E.g., one or both files might have been partially or completely
updated.)
(c) Metadata correctly written, file data completely unwritten.
(Neither file got updated at all.)
(d) Metadata correctly written, FILE DATA INTERCHANGED BETWEEN A AND B.
(E.g., File A gets some of file B written somewhere within it,
and file B gets some of file A written somewhere within it---this
is the behavior I observed, at least twice, with reiserfs.)
(e) Metadata corrupted in some fashion, file data undefined.
("Undefined" means could be any of (a) through (d) above; I don't care.)

Now, which filesystems can show each outcome? I don't know. I
contend that reiserfs does (d). Stephen Tweedie talks above about
whether we can "guarantee that all the data blocks have been written",
but may be missing the point I was making, namely that THE BLOCKS HAVE
BEEN WRITTEN TO THE WRONG FILES.
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dunbar
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2002 5:00 pm    Post subject: Thanks..... Reply with quote

delta407 wrote:
Ask [url]google.com/linux[/url]. Some quick googling resulted with:

Quote:
(a) Metadata correctly written, file data correctly written.
(b) Metadata correctly written, file data partially written.
(E.g., one or both files might have been partially or completely
updated.)
(c) Metadata correctly written, file data completely unwritten.
(Neither file got updated at all.)
(d) Metadata correctly written, FILE DATA INTERCHANGED BETWEEN A AND B.
(E.g., File A gets some of file B written somewhere within it,
and file B gets some of file A written somewhere within it---this
is the behavior I observed, at least twice, with reiserfs.)
(e) Metadata corrupted in some fashion, file data undefined.
("Undefined" means could be any of (a) through (d) above; I don't care.)

Now, which filesystems can show each outcome? I don't know. I
contend that reiserfs does (d). Stephen Tweedie talks above about
whether we can "guarantee that all the data blocks have been written",
but may be missing the point I was making, namely that THE BLOCKS HAVE
BEEN WRITTEN TO THE WRONG FILES.


Thanks, but the link is generic Google startup link.... no search results nor links to the file you quoted.
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dunbar
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2002 5:06 pm    Post subject: Hint and Motherlode. Reply with quote

I too Googled around for "reiser corruption"

using this http://www.google.com/linux?hl=en&lr=&q=reiser+corruption&btnG=Google+Search

And, as the ladies say.... BINGO

Hint:
http://kt.linuxcare.com/kernel-traffic/kt20010202_105.epl#5

The motherlode (for my problem):
http://old.lwn.net/2001/0118/kernel.php3

And then there is the plea for help:
http://old.lwn.net/2001/0118/a/via-ide.php3

Sure, the kernel in that motherlode post is older than current kernel, but still sounds like a good score for resolving my problem.

Sure glad I converted to ext3 last week; mobo is not the whole issue.
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Houdini
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2002 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For more information, visit your local hype site:

http://slashdot.org/articles/01/11/24/1711245.shtml

Kernels betweek 2.4.11 (I think) and 2.4.16 (again, I think) had a tendancy to corrupt the fuck out fses on unmount, and I think reiser was hit pretty hard by that.[/url]
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