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yucao89
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 10:00 am    Post subject: why learning JAVA is important! Reply with quote

Java is a programming language developed by sun microsystems.
and i think that we all should learn it because
it is OOP (object oriented programming languages)
it is API are very useful for networking
very flexible and multi OS for Windows and for linux and also MAC
disadvantage needs a reader or translator to tranlate the .class file to real binary no so quick as C++ but now very quick because the compile just in time
learning resources.
1 www.mindview.net Thinking Java 1.4 (Recommended for everyone.) I was recommended by a guy that works in SUN. And FREE!!!!
2 Also buying COREJAVA fundamentals and COREJAVA advanced are recommended these books are not free but developed by sun and has a clear view of JAVA.
3 buying Java in the UML way
4 buying Java but published by cisco press on there academy.!!!
Look that in www.amazon.com the best and cheapest waY!!!!
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-JeaN-
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Java in a nutshell from O'Reilly is a nice little book as well for learning Java :)
I like java on my own, but since i'm some kind of optimizing freak, i don't like the fact that it reacts slower than other languages like C/C++, but that's just me :)
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Mat_le_ouf
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing I find annoying with Java is the time it takes to get a bytecode, even just for a basic 'Hello World' app...
Otherwise, quite a good programming language, and not so hard to learn.
Worth the try!
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tukem
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I agree that java syntax is easy to learn ( and with some earlier c++ experience it's really easy). It's also good that there are library packages for any application one can think of. But API documentation is often so poor that programming is a quess work. Of course there are a lot of books about java but they cover only part of whole gigantic system.
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yucao89
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 4:06 pm    Post subject: Yes! Oreilly is a good publisher Reply with quote

Prentice Hall and Oreilly are good publishers.
but make sure that you choose book from big companies or your level! oreilly is not for you if you are a newbie and i think the best guide you can get is from the company who wrote the language
e.g CoreJava from sun microsystems. and prentice hall
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gsfgf
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Java's ok, except it needs a JRE. That's a nuiscence on shared boxes. I'm still a C++ guy myself.
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yucao89
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 8:20 am    Post subject: C++ does provide net API Reply with quote

C++ doesnt provide so many done library such as java! Well i also know a little of C++ it is just Object oriented programming
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zhenlin
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Java has mandatory class libraries. C[++] has many libraries.

There is subtle difference. C++ is very cross platform. More so than Java since it runs on almost any concievable system. Yet Java has a much cleaner design...

If Java was native code compilable and had operator overloading, I wouldn't complain as much. GCJ does not seem to do a very good job.
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yucao89
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 4:39 pm    Post subject: Java compared to C++ Reply with quote

Which is better C++ or java?
Java is better i think but only for network uses and C++ for big enterprise no internet applications.!
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S_aIN_t
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you can do the same tasks in both java and c++. the problem is how easy it is to create that application in java or c++.

in my opinion, java is just slow. there is nothing wrong with it. the only problem that i have with it is that it is slow when using gui components. a friend and I wrote an application. Both of us know how to write good software. And no matter how much we're trying to find tune it, the result was always the same. The GUI was painfully slow.

Recently there was a memo published by Sun. The memo stated that Java performance is one of their biggest issues. Java was compared to Python. Guess what?? Python emerged (bad pun :) ) as the winner.

The conclusion to all of this is the following. If you need performance you should consider a language other than java. If you want something that is cross platform use Java. It will save you some pain.
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jasonlee9
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2003 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Java compared to C++ Reply with quote

yucao89 wrote:
Which is better C++ or java?
Java is better i think but only for network uses and C++ for big enterprise no internet applications.!


neither! that's like asking what is better, a bicycle or a motorcycle. they both get you there, just in different ways and at, sometimes, different speeds, one pollutes and one doesn't, etc... java might make some network programming 'easier', but that's a totally subjective observation. why is there this always this typical 'which is better' argument?

i'm a java developer, but i admire c/c++ quite a bit and really aspire to become as proficient in that as java. there can be no java without c and java opens up a lot of doors for c programmers. in the other direction, for people that know java, learning c is pretty trivial.

sorry, but i just kinda frown a little bit regarding these kind of, java vs. c things. however, if you said "which is better vb/c# or java", well, then i'd have to chime in. ;)
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yucao89
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2003 6:59 pm    Post subject: Java delevoper? recomend me some thing Reply with quote

Java developer? that is pretty good which java books you recomend me?
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jingram
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For what it's worth, at UIUC the first programming course CS majors take in in Java, and the second one (data structures) is in C++. That way we have to learn about pointers and memory management. There were recommended textbooks, but we mostly used the lecturer's notes, which were really really good.

Anyway, as for books, Java, How to Program by Deitel & Deitel is a pretty good teach-by-example book, but if you already have programming experience (esp. OOP), then you might do fine with some of the online stuff at http://java.sun.com.
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Yarrick
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so far, ive learned java, and im currently thinking about learning c++. one thing i like with java is the large API, with good documentation of every function at java.sun.com. It seems the libraries for c++ are more scattered. Is the only way to find a new library for every task?
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fmalabre
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 2:30 am    Post subject: Re: C++ does provide net API Reply with quote

yucao89 wrote:
C++ doesnt provide so many done library such as java! Well i also know a little of C++ it is just Object oriented programming

If you have a look at Qt, you will see it's a very high level API. And cross platform.
Java still have stuff like reflection that C++ can not have, but what is a real world example of using that? I just can think of an IDE designer... nothing else... Everything else can be done through dlopen
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fourfats
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you should make a poll, seeing as how we have so many already. i for one would vote for java cuz it's the first programming language i learned

--simon
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simon
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: C++ does provide net API Reply with quote

yucao89 wrote:
Java still have stuff like reflection that C++ can not have, but what is a real world example of using that? I just can think of an IDE designer... nothing else... Everything else can be done through dlopen


Ahm, I use reflection very often. As a real world example, copy properties from one bean to another with conversion ...
There are quite some examples, not just IDE designer.

Simon
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fmalabre
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I guess I was wrong.
There are a lot of exmaples I'm sure. I just haven't used them yet :?
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nerdbert
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2003 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry, but in my opinion the only reason for learning java is $...
I personally hate it - the compiler is a f***ing nitpicker... it tells me whenever I forget a f***ing ";" at the end of the line...
Im waiting for the post telling me that I might be right, but that Java is the future...
anyways, I recently tried Ruby and I was amazed... Java might be the future, but Id rather be unemployed and poor before I start using this OOPL
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brad
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2003 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Languages are designed for utility. Java has one purpose: platform-independent binaries. It also has a major drawback: it's interpreted. That means the programmer will never have complete control of the resulting program or its interaction with the machine on which it runs. Garbage collection is the oft cited culprit, but there are plenty of other reasons out there, like run-time type safety and sandboxing.

Languages like C/C++ give the programmer complete control of the underlying mechanics. That also means it's easier to screw things up if you don't understand what you're doing. C/C++ are way more appropriate for programs that necessitate performance, like real-time execution or operating systems.

I used to argue the case for assembly, but times change and only driver programmers use it anymore. However, I still maintain it's the best way to truly learn about the inner workings of a processor.

Scripted languages like perl, python, tcl/tk, et al are great for portability (like java) and prototyping. They typically require a very small runtime environment which makes them ideal for distributing on disks.

A good programmer has a bag of many tools and knows when a certain language is appropriate. In my many years of programming it has become apparent that to rely on a single language as the "ultimate" is the ultimate fallacy. As we speak, programming language researches are exploring alternatives to the current way of doing things. One day any old joe will be able to tell a computer what it wants in something akin to natural language. The computers of the future will use quantum mechanics and chemical reactions, and there's no telling how we'll speak to them. So keep learning because that's your most valuable tool. With that you can pick up whatever comes along.
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marsf
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2003 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

A good programmer has a bag of many tools and knows when a certain language is appropriate. In my many years of programming it has become apparent that to rely on a single language as the "ultimate" is the ultimate fallacy.


Amen to that!

I use Python, C++, and Java, switching among them as the task dictates. I can have a Python script doing tasks that would take 2x as many lines in Java, and who knows how many lines in C++. Python is also a very very high level language, which works more towards the way I think. For the low and fast level I use C++, and for my large personal projects I use Java, both for the cross platform capabilities and the well documented library functions. Also, people aren't going to install Python and wxPython to try my software, but most machines have the JVM installed already (ease-of-use, a key to mainstream adoption).

Personally I believe that you are only a true programmer when you have become a "zen programmer". You can use any language, because programming in them is exactly the same, but with different syntax and a few different methodologies.


Mars

[NOTE:] The "zen programmer" can be enhanced, but not realized, through the consumption of large quantities of beer.
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anvesaka
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2003 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try OCaml, you will never be the same programmer:

http://www.ocaml.org

(and OCaml is REALLY fast, both writing the application and the generated code, even faster than C++).

Bye.
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