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suse
Tux's lil' helper
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Joined: 19 May 2005
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 6:04 pm    Post subject: Jackass, what? Reply with quote

Install Handbook:
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/2005.0/handbook-x86.xml?full=1
X86 Quicky
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-x86-quickinstall.xml
Jackass:
http://jackass.homelinux.org/

Aren't all stage3 these are all the same? According to the Handbook on the Pros/Cons of stages, stage1 or stage2 allow more customization. I did a stage3, and I get to edit make.conf, do make menuconfig. Doesn't this give a fully customized kernel? What more customization are there?
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zmedico
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Joined: 02 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO stage3 is just fine in most cases. The lower stages simply allow you to compile more of the system "from scratch" based on the latest portage snapshot with your CFLAGS and USE flags. Of course, "emerge -uD world" will update everything to the latest versions. Note that you can add ~x86 to ACCEPT_KEYWORDS in /etc/make.conf if you want to test the latest versions. You probably don't want all your packages to be ~x86 though, so you can take that keyword away from glibc, etc...
Code:
echo "sys-libs/glibc -~x86" >> /etc/portage/package.keywords

Also note that you need to start from stage1 if you need to change CHOST.
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Rad
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The kernel is definitely not all you can customize, there's also MANY features and some compiler options which can additionally be enabled (nptl and --fomit-frame-pointers and such).

I too actually like the "NPTL" - Feature, which seems to be one of the main feature of the jackass stages (besides the compiler toolchain from gentoo unstable and the CFLAGS). This is because NPTL speeds up the thread-slinging java stuff to some extent.
However, I don't know how well the jackass optimized stages fare in terms of stabilty and reliability. Most likely, they're less easy to use and maintain than gentoo stable...

Hint: Don't concern yourself too much with optimization and such for now. Even if you indeed needed more speed, you'd know only after you finish installing gentoo and have used it for a while. Having more broken packages and is most likely more annoying when you've only just started using gentoo...
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Bob P
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rad wrote:
However, I don't know how well the jackass optimized stages fare in terms of stabilty and reliability. Most likely, they're less easy to use and maintain than gentoo stable...


Jackass! is built with GCC 3.4.3 + NPTL. It is no less stable than any other properly configured Gentoo installation that uses GCC 3.4.3 and NPTL. In fact, a Jackass! Toolkit is probably more stable than the garden variety Gentoo GCC 3.4.3 + NPTL toolkits that the typical Gentoo user would build, because Jackass! was built by experts and there is already a man-year of in-the-field testing behind the Jackass! Toolkits for each architecture that shows that they were built without errors.
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Bob P
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 8:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Jackass, what? Reply with quote

suse wrote:
Aren't all stage3 these are all the same? According to the Handbook on the Pros/Cons of stages, stage1 or stage2 allow more customization. I did a stage3, and I get to edit make.conf, do make menuconfig. Doesn't this give a fully customized kernel? What more customization are there?


No. The Gentoo Stage 3 tarballs and the Jackass! Stage 3 tarballs are completely different animals. :wink:

The Gentoo 2005.0 Stage 3 tarballs for x86 are built with GCC 3.3.5 and without NPTL support.

The Jackass! 2005.0 Stage 3 tarballs for x86 are built with GCC 3.4.3 and with NPTL support.

Other than these variations in the toolkit, the tarballs behave identically.
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suse
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 10:06 pm    Post subject: Ah, I see Reply with quote

So the stage3 tar ball already has some "stuff" compiled using some general settings and the Jackass stage3 don't have as much stuff pre-compiled? What's the story behind nptl?
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ryker
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 10:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Ah, I see Reply with quote

suse wrote:
So the stage3 tar ball already has some "stuff" compiled using some general settings and the Jackass stage3 don't have as much stuff pre-compiled? What's the story behind nptl?


OK, I don't mean to be ruff on you, but c'mon! Bob P just answered your question!
Bob P wrote:
The Jackass! 2005.0 Stage 3 tarballs for x86 are built with GCC 3.4.3 and with NPTL support.

Other than these variations in the toolkit, the tarballs behave identically.


There's your answer! The reason? It saves LOTS of time recompiling the originall stage3 tarball.

Why would you want to do this? It runs much faster! I have 4 servers and 2 desktops running using Bob's method. They are fast and stable. I just installed the last desktop using Jackass! and it works great! It only took me about 1.5 hours to install my system.

Want more information? Look at Bob's sig.
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suse
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 11:45 pm    Post subject: Still not sure Reply with quote

>GCC 3.4.3 and with NPTL support
>Other than these variations in the toolkit, the tarballs behave identically.

Behave identically can be a lot of thing. That's why I am not clear so you need to be ruffer :). All computers behave identically more or less :?

From this thread, I see stage3 does not offer all possible customizations. Well, if Jackass! is just compiled with a different compiler + NPTL support, why it allows more customization than the can'ed stage3? :roll:

It really doesn't matter but I just want to know.

BTW, the jackass keeps staring at me :wink: making me feel weird and stupid. :cry:


Last edited by suse on Fri May 20, 2005 11:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ryker
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless I missed something, where does it say that Jackass! allows more customizations? AFAIK, it doesn't allow any additional customizations than any other stage3 tarball. The Jackass! tarball itself is customized. It's customized to already include GCC 3.4.3 and NPTL threads. That's the only difference.
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