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gentoo_lan
l33t
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 887
Location: Osan AB, South Korea
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 Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| ciaranm wrote: | | jholz7 wrote: | | I'm a bit confused here. So you're saying Gentoo has been lying about the things it's going to do or not do? How are we supposed to know what is "substantiated" vs. "unsubstantiated"? Or is this just some internal disagreement? |
Gentoo didn't say anything. Pvdabeel said it, and Gentoo Weekly News (who are an unofficial news publication who do not necessarily follow the official Gentoo view on things) published it. Officially, we have no stance on OpenSlowaris and we have no plans to port things to it. |
Trust me everyone should be happy Gentoo news is an unofficial publication. It is better for the news not to come straight from the horses...in this case the cows mouth.
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ciaranm
Retired Dev
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 1719
Location: In Hiding
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| gentoo_lan wrote: | | Trust me everyone should be happy Gentoo news is an unofficial publication. It is better for the news not to come straight from the horses...in this case the cows mouth. |
Problem is, their journalistic integrity is often somewhat lacking... |
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gentoo_lan
l33t
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 887
Location: Osan AB, South Korea
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| ciaranm wrote: | | gentoo_lan wrote: | | Trust me everyone should be happy Gentoo news is an unofficial publication. It is better for the news not to come straight from the horses...in this case the cows mouth. |
Problem is, their journalistic integrity is often somewhat lacking... |
Sadly enough the only other way to get news is from Planet Gentoo straight from developers blogs. If the developers directly contradict what Gentoo news says then perhaps people would catch them on it and some type of correction could be run. However I'm pretty sure developers don't have time to contradict inconsistancies made by Gentoo news.
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Lokheed
Veteran
Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Posts: 1295
Location: /usr/src/linux
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2005 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| ciaranm wrote: | | Lokheed wrote: | | We should have a contest for a new mascott...Linux seriously lacks aesthetic appeal. Its an uphill fight with the majority of people just not caring about their pixel placement. |
We have functionality. |
Who said you didnt? Besides there is no law written in stone that says you cant function just as well as you look.
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dirtyepic
Developer
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 1614
Location: sk.ca
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| gentoo_lan wrote: | | Sadly enough the only other way to get news is from Planet Gentoo straight from developers blogs. |
Which brings us right back around to the original question. Does Gentoo need a face? Or maybe, does Gentoo need a voice?
(either way I think it should have mandibles.)
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wolfger
Apprentice
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 254
Location: New Baltimore, MI
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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Gentoo's face is Larry.
Gentoo's voice is every happy user out there spreading the word.
Gentoo does, however, lack mandibles at the moment....
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groovin
Guru
Joined: 07 Feb 2004
Posts: 429
Location: California, USA
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| i nominate Carmen Electra... in our dreams of course.... |
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nadir-san
Apprentice
Joined: 29 May 2004
Posts: 174
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 12:31 am Post subject: |
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I nominate 'miyu'
/me points to avatar |
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Fat Bastard
n00b
Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| I don't think Gentoo needs a "face" based on past experiences. D. Robbins used to be the "face" of Gentoo, and he turned out to be a Mac Mini spammer. |
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Cintra
Advocate
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 2111
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 5:56 am Post subject: |
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Gentoo already has face..
http://www.funroll-loops.org/
mvh
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cokehabit
Advocate
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| I think Ciaranm should be the public face of Gentoo |
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firephoto
Veteran
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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Location: +48° 5' 23.40", -119° 48' 30.00"
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | I think Ciaranm should be the public face of Gentoo |
If you look to the non-gentoo users out there and their reasons I believe you'll find that there's probably a lot of them that already find him to be the public face of gentoo.  I don't know what happened within the debian project as it matured but I have a lot of people telling me gentoo is heading that direction more and more every day.
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cokehabit
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Joined: 23 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| firephoto wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | I think Ciaranm should be the public face of Gentoo |
If you look to the non-gentoo users out there and their reasons I believe you'll find that there's probably a lot of them that already find him to be the public face of gentoo. I don't know what happened within the debian project as it matured but I have a lot of people telling me gentoo is heading that direction more and more every day. |
Erm..... no. I dont think dmwaters will ever let Ciaranm be the public face of gentoo.
But i have no problem with people thinking he is Gentoo's public face because i see him as a kind of a radical, if more people were like him i dont know whether things would be better but they would certainly be more interesting. I certainly back up his idea on "show me the code or shut up". Since when was Gentoo a "hot air" distro? Meta or not, talk about things when they are in place |
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ciaranm
Retired Dev
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 1719
Location: In Hiding
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Ah ha ha ha ha. No, see, I do development. You know, the thing that keeps the tree, which is our main asset, alive. None of this silly political nonsense for me. |
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firephoto
Veteran
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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Location: +48° 5' 23.40", -119° 48' 30.00"
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | But i have no problem with people thinking he is Gentoo's public face because i see him as a kind of a radical, if more people were like him i dont know whether things would be better but they would certainly be more interesting. I certainly back up his idea on "show me the code or shut up". Since when was Gentoo a "hot air" distro? Meta or not, talk about things when they are in place |
Show me the code is great but when your attitude makes you think you are trying to be a god and you refuse to USE the code and instead claim it's just wrong, broken, and doesn't meet your self imposed standards you just end up looking like a horses ass. So no we don't need that as ANY public face of gentoo but obviously this isn't keeping it from happening now is it?
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ciaranm
Retired Dev
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
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Location: In Hiding
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| firephoto wrote: | | Show me the code is great but when your attitude makes you think you are trying to be a god and you refuse to USE the code and instead claim it's just wrong, broken, and doesn't meet your self imposed standards you just end up looking like a horses ass. So no we don't need that as ANY public face of gentoo but obviously this isn't keeping it from happening now is it? |
Would you rather we committed any old crap to the tree? Perhaps you should take a look at the amount of whining we get right now whenever something breaks -- then imagine what would happen if we dropped our QA standards even further. |
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firephoto
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| ciaranm wrote: | | Would you rather we committed any old crap to the tree? Perhaps you should take a look at the amount of whining we get right now whenever something breaks -- then imagine what would happen if we dropped our QA standards even further. |
So you saying that if an app doesn't meet YOUR (I don't remember bringing anyone else into this) code requirement which could result in that app breaking itself and needing it's developer to fix it, that it shouldn't be in the tree when it has no effect on your operating system? The my way or the highway attitude isn't what gentoo needs.
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ciaranm
Retired Dev
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
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Location: In Hiding
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| firephoto wrote: | | ciaranm wrote: | | Would you rather we committed any old crap to the tree? Perhaps you should take a look at the amount of whining we get right now whenever something breaks -- then imagine what would happen if we dropped our QA standards even further. |
So you saying that if an app doesn't meet YOUR (I don't remember bringing anyone else into this) code requirement which could result in that app breaking itself and needing it's developer to fix it, that it shouldn't be in the tree when it has no effect on your operating system? The my way or the highway attitude isn't what gentoo needs. |
'My' code requirements? Policy says, amongst other things, that we should only have things that work and that we can actually fix in the tree. By putting something in the tree, a developer is in effect vouching for that software. |
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jd5419
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 110
Location: RI, USA
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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| This thread has become quite a long (IMHO) flamefest for some developers... Poor Poor larry the cow. |
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Ascension
n00b
Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 22
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 11:49 pm Post subject: I Concur |
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I'd like to second the idea that ciaranm should be the face of Gentoo. Him or foser that is. They both have a very strong "no BS" policy, and I think that's a great message to go with this distribution.
They also don't waste their time with meaningless things like politeness, or explanations. If people don't get it, they're never going to get it. Screw them.
ciaranm/foser for Gentoo Spokesperson!!
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Lokheed
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Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Posts: 1295
Location: /usr/src/linux
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 1:01 am Post subject: Re: I Concur |
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| Ascension wrote: | | They also don't waste their time with meaningless things like politeness, or explanations. If people don't get it, they're never going to get it. |
Thats precisely why they wouldn't make good PR people. The "face of Gentoo" needs to have some charisma...
This has got to be the most idiotic comment I have seen in a long time: "If people don't get it, they're never going to get it." Take a bow...
Next time you need a question answered or ask for something, and the person yells and you or treats you abusively or maliciously, then you have absolutely no right to complain...according to your own words that is...
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cokehabit
Advocate
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3302
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: I Concur |
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| Lokheed wrote: | | Ascension wrote: | | They also don't waste their time with meaningless things like politeness, or explanations. If people don't get it, they're never going to get it. |
Thats precisely why they wouldn't make good PR people. The "face of Gentoo" needs to have some charisma... |
so you're suggesting we need the same PR person as everone else? As someone who worked in PR in london i tell you, people like a change, someone who tells them straight. Now if you had have said that perhaps ciaranm can be too abrasive at times then it would have given creedence to what you were saying, unfortunately we can see you have no idea what you are on about.
| Lokheed wrote: | | This has got to be the most idiotic comment I have seen in a long time: "If people don't get it, they're never going to get it." Take a bow... |
you dont seem to have yet and i cant bother explaining it to you
| Lokheed wrote: | | Next time you need a question answered or ask for something, and the person yells and you or treats you abusively or maliciously, then you have absolutely no right to complain...according to your own words that is... |
I've never seen ciaranm talk like that to someone who didn't deserve it. He gets annoyed when people say "can you help me with this error" and then dont give the error or what they were doing when they got it. |
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kimchi_sg
Advocate
Joined: 26 Nov 2004
Posts: 2915
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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ciaranm for the public face of Gentoo!
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curtis119
Bodhisattva
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 2158
Location: Toledo, OH, USA, North America, Earth, SOL System, Milky Way, The Universe, The Cosmos, and Beyond.
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: I Concur |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | lots of stuff about ciranm |
Although I like ciarnm and think he is more or less correct when it comes to his opinions concerning gentoo, I don't think he would be a good Spokesperson. We need someone more like swift. Swift is not a code developer, he's the Lead Documentor, so he is not trying to push any of his own coding ideas and doesn't get caught up in the internal politics of that. He is capable of being more objective than most of the other devs because of this.
Also, swift has been with the project almost since the beginning. He knows the in's and out's of gentoo like the back of his hand (politically and technically) and the other devs know, respect and trust him. I dare you to find a dev that doesn't at least partially agree with my opinion of him.
Swift is also more of a consensus builder. He is genuinely concerned with the well being of the project and all the individual devs involved in it's creation. The rough and ready style of ciarnm may be good when it comes to fighting for technical excellence but it doesn't fit with the role of a Spokesperson. In a large project like this we need someone that all the players are comfortable discussing things with. Someone who can remain objective and impartial when evaluating the facts at hand and reporting them to the press.
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Sven Vermeulen
Developer
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 1329
Location: Mechelen, Belgium
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: I Concur |
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| curtis119 wrote: |
I dare you to find a dev that doesn't at least partially agree with my opinion of him.
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/me points to ciaran 
Generally, Gentoo does not need (or want) a single face. Gentoo's strength is in the entire community, both user-side as developer. You will not find a distribution where you can easily talk to many developers or where the development community works so closely with the users.
We might need some better PR (tried it, didn't work well for me) but not the one people see in commercial companies. We do not want to have good figures at the end of a quarter. We want to improve Gentoo regardless of the time restrictions.
And stop the crap on ciaran for public face. tigger^ all the way... |
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