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Berkz
Apprentice
Joined: 26 Aug 2002
Posts: 205
Location: Iceland
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 Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2003 3:07 am Post subject: Some thoughts on KDE vs Gnome... |
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I've recently turned 99% to linux.. Windows still on old 10 GB /dev/hdb ... But I haven't entered Windows in 1 week.. And I'm very glad!
Now during this time I've been using KDE and I like it alot. It is very customizable which is to my liking. And I've installed allot of extra eye candy for example mosfet's great liquid www.mosfet.org
superb everaldo Icons www.everaldo.com
Currently my desktop looks great but i have an obsession of trying everything  So lately I've been reading some info on Gnome. I didn't find a Gnome site where user's can add extra eye-candy... something like [url]kde-look.org[/url] If you know of one please let me know.
I would like to outlist some of the pros and cons on Gnome and KDE that I've found researching the web. Please note that I'm a linux newbie and some of this stuff might be wrong or just the way that I understand the things I read. But please correct me if I'm wrong on any of these things.... - Edit : forgot about art.gnome.org sorry.. But I was kinda thinking of something as active as kde-look.org
KDE:
Pros:
Great API. easy to program for it. Attract's more programmers, more program's etc. etc.
Very configurable. Easy to make a great looking desktop with extra eye candy..
Cons:
API not 100% free. In a sense where If 1 software maker would like to create closed software under the QT libraries that 1 software make would have to pay lots of $ to Trolltech..
Gnome:
Pros:
Api Totally free
Cons:
Api very messy...
Perhaps not as configurable... ( pro or con? - Depend's on the user..... )
Now let's imagine in 5 years time. Linux will have grown with the same pace it has in the last 5 years...I believe Gnome would win as the destop of choice because of it's free licence.. It would attract more programs.. Am I wrong ?
Please post your comment's...
Regards, Berkz
Last edited by Berkz on Mon Feb 24, 2003 3:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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zez
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Joined: 13 Jun 2002
Posts: 256
Location: Oregon, United States
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2003 3:09 am Post subject: Re: Some thoughts on KDE vs Gnome... |
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| Berkz wrote: | I didn't find a Gnome site where user's can add extra eye-candy... something like [url]kde-look.org[/url] If you know of one please let me know.
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http://art.gnome.org/
Not quite as large/mature as kde-look, but the same idea. |
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DarrenM
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Joined: 25 Apr 2002
Posts: 653
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2003 3:41 am Post subject: |
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The impression I have (which may be outdated) is that Gnome was always focused on developing technology while KDE was focused on creating a complete, polished desktop environment. I think this is part of the reason KDE has overtaken Gnome. Another being the higher popularity of c++ which KDE uses over c which Gnome uses.
The problem now is that while I am still a fan and user of KDE I feel it has outgrown it's distribution method leading to justified statements about bloat. It needs some kind of 'make menuconfig' so that people can trim out all the programs they will never use. |
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pjp
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Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 20067
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2003 4:21 am Post subject: |
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Moved from Desktop Environments.
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mangaf
n00b
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2003 3:50 pm Post subject: QT api |
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QT api is 100% GPL
If tomorrow Microsoft buy TrollTech the last version (now 3.1) will be free
http://www.kde.org/whatiskde/qt.html |
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Elm0
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Joined: 24 Nov 2002
Posts: 281
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2003 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Cons:
API not 100% free. In a sense where If 1 software maker would like to create closed software under the QT libraries that 1 software make would have to pay lots of $ to Trolltech.
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Hmmm... I've noticed a lot of people, especially open-source purists have written this down as a con against the KDE/QT desktop enviroment.
Personally, this is exactly HOW I see the free software movement surviving. Having one license for those who want to write free software, and then selling to those who want to make a profit on top of your work.
I can't remember how much a license for QT is, something around $2000 if I remember correctly. This is a very competitive price for such a mature product, and in the realms of commercial programming when you consider that a programmer is $30k+ its small change for most companies. |
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noff
Guru
Joined: 11 Nov 2002
Posts: 388
Location: College Park, Maryland
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2003 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| DarrenM wrote: | | The problem now is that while I am still a fan and user of KDE I feel it has outgrown it's distribution method leading to justified statements about bloat. It needs some kind of 'make menuconfig' so that people can trim out all the programs they will never use. |
You can sort of get this in gentoo by just emerging kdebase and whatever else. I do agree that this would be incredibly helpful. I could finally just get kmix out of kmultimedia.
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shm
Advocate
Joined: 09 Dec 2002
Posts: 2380
Location: Atlanta, Universe
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2003 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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Qt for X11 is completely free (in both beer and speech)... it's licensed under the GPL, so if you want to develop commercial software with it, you can. You just have to give out the source at the same price of distribution.
What you can't do is develop propreitary software with it unless you pay Trolltech for a commercial license. |
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Berkz
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Joined: 26 Aug 2002
Posts: 205
Location: Iceland
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2003 8:18 pm Post subject: ok.. |
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| don't you think that Gnome Api being free (in the sense that companies can develop propriatary software withouth paying license fee) will draw more developer's? |
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Evangelion
Veteran
Joined: 31 May 2002
Posts: 1087
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2003 9:06 am Post subject: |
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I'm always surprised by the Qt-license whinging. I mean, it goes something like this:
Qt was under QPL: "Qt and Trolltech sucks! Qt is not free!"
Qt is under GPL: "Qt and Trolltech sucks! They force me to write free and open software! If I want to write proprietary and closed software I have to *gasp* pay Trolltech!"
So let me get this straigh: Qt used to suck because it was not free. GPL-purists whined because it was not Kosher. Now that it's GPL (and it actually urges people to write GPL-software, since commercial license costs money!), the same people whine because they can't use Qt for free to write proprietary software?!
In short: The whiners insist that Trolltech must offer their product for free. But the whiners also insist that they (whiners) must have the right to keep their Qt-software closed.
"Do as I say, not as I do!", eh? |
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dufnutz
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Joined: 01 May 2002
Posts: 209
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2003 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: ok.. |
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| Berkz wrote: | | don't you think that Gnome Api being free (in the sense that companies can develop propriatary software withouth paying license fee) will draw more developer's? |
in a sense this has already happened. Gnome is being accepted more in the commercial area where the lisence really matters. For example
one reason Red Hat uses gnome over kde (not the only) is because they are trying to cut into the server/commercial workstation market so if company A hires company B to write software for their commercial workstation setup company B might not want to GPL its software. So if RH chose KDE company B would either reject the offer refusing to GPL their code, buy a lisence for trolltech maybe increasing the contract cost, use a toolkit that doesn't integrate with the desktop, or if company A is lucky GPL their software.
Sun also recently choose gnome not just for that reason but also because Sun will probably want to build apps into its workstation and wont GPL them. that would be impossible with QT unless they bought a lisence. It also helps sun because its easier to promote companies to produce commercial software that integrates when the api is free for proprietary software. |
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idl
Retired Dev
Joined: 24 Dec 2002
Posts: 1728
Location: Nottingham, UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2003 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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One thingy about Gnome i see as a Pro is that I can run a complete desktop with any app i'd ever need without having to install any Qt based apps, Gnome as a huge amount of apps on its side, and if I where to use KDE there would be a mash of Qt and GTK apps everywhere and wouldnt look too good.
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gkmac
Guru
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 333
Location: West Sussex, UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2003 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| port001 wrote: | | Gnome has a huge amount of apps on its side, and if I where to use KDE there would be a mash of Qt and GTK apps everywhere and wouldnt look too good. |
I agree, when switching from RedHat to Gentoo I decided to give KDE a go. After several hours of compiling I did user it and KDE indeed does seem to provide a better suite of "built-in" apps and gives the user more control over how it looks.
But after trying various Qt apps here and there, I kept coming back to my favourite GTK apps (Galeon, Sylpheed, Pan, grip...) and there were more alternatives apps for GTK over Qt.
Plus, getting Qt and GTK to look identical is far from easy. But it is fair to say that at the moment even dedicated Gnome/GTK users may have issues with GTK1 and GTK2 apps looking different. |
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idl
Retired Dev
Joined: 24 Dec 2002
Posts: 1728
Location: Nottingham, UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2003 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | But it is fair to say that at the moment even dedicated Gnome/GTK users may have issues with GTK1 and GTK2 apps looking different. |
True, but its only a matter of time before all gnome apps get ported over to gtk2 - I personaly only run two gtk1 apps, xmms and dc-gui.
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