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russryder
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:23 am    Post subject: I refuse to use xorg....it sucks! (nevermind....user error) Reply with quote

Here I am doing a sync when I notice that xfree is booted out of portage completley....I've tried to get XOrg to work twice w/ no luck.

Here's my setup
shuttle mn31n nforce 2 mobo
geforce 5700 ultra

as soon as I emerge Xorg my nvidia driver refuses to initialize...it works fine w/ the nv driver...but everyone know that sucks @ss compared to the nvidia driver. I just wondering if anyone else has had as much trouble w/ XOrg as I have.

Before anyone asks I have done all of the following after installing Xorg
emerged
nvidia-kernel
nvidia-glx

opengl-update nvidia

modprobe nvidia

lsmod to show that indeed nvidia was loaded

Again....I am digging in my heels to stay w/ xfree as long as I can because it works and doesn't suck and stuff. If anyone has any input or if there was anything that I missed or a thread that I didn't read somewhere with the "Magic" answer please let me know.


Russ

EDIT:
The only problem was that I never did unload the original nvidia module...a restart would have fixed it, but I assumed it was a bug and unmerged xorg and put xfree back on.
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Last edited by russryder on Sat Jan 08, 2005 4:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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madbiker
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you unload the old nvidia module before modprobing the new one?

Very few people have problems with xorg...
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Joe Schmow
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm also currently having some strange problems with nvidia-kernel and xorg...
Here's my details:

H A R D W A R E :
_________________________________________
Graphics Card(s): Nvidia nv17 and nv 41, geforece mx440 and 6800 respectively.
I've tried them both (at different times... and installs, etc) with no success.
(right now it's NV17 [GeForce4 MX440] according to lspci)

Motherboard: Asus P4PE, AGP 4X, on board video NOT used.... but no
place in bios to disable it....


K E R N E L S U M M A R Y:
_________________________________________
Kernel Info: ck-sources, 2.6.10-r1


I made _SURE_ (10 times probably) of the following:

1.) that agpgart was compiled in or loaded as a module
2.) MTRR is enabled
3.) My stack sizes were setup properly

I've followed the xorg documentation from gentoo
exactly and successfully got X up and running (thats what i'm
typing this on) with the nv driver.

Next I followed the gentoo docs exactly for the nvidia how-to,
with no luck.

I've even tried a different nvidia card.....


I don't think x.org sucks, i think this is a small bug with the 2.6.10-ck
sources/nvidia-kernel or I over looked something.


FYI, first gentoo forums post.

Any help appreciated.


-Joe

Partial xorg log:
______________________________________________
X Window System Version 6.8.0
Release Date: 8 September 2004
X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0, Release 6.8
Build Operating System: Linux 2.6.10-ck1 i686 [ELF]
Current Operating System: Linux g3ntoo 2.6.10-ck1 #1 Tue Jan 4 09:49:53 EST 2005 i686
Build Date: 04 January 2005
Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.X.Org
to make sure that you have the latest version.
Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting,
(++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational,
(WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown.
(==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Thu Jan 6 00:11:20 2005
(==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf"
(==) ServerLayout "Simple Layout"
(**) |-->Screen "Screen 1" (0)
(**) | |-->Monitor "60"
(**) | |-->Device "** NVIDIA (generic) [nv]"
(**) |-->Input Device "Mouse1"
(**) |-->Input Device "Keyboard1"
(**) FontPath set to "/usr/share/fonts/misc/,/usr/share/fonts/TTF/,/usr/share/fonts/Type1/,/usr/share/fonts/75dpi/,/usr/share/fonts/100dpi/,/usr/share/fonts/local/"
(**) RgbPath set to "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/rgb"
(WW) Open APM failed (/dev/apm_bios) (No such file or directory)
Using vt 7
(--) using VT number 7
II) PCI-to-ISA bridge:
(II) Bus -1: bridge is at (0:31:0), (0,-1,-1), BCTRL: 0x0008 (VGA_EN is set)
(--) PCI:*(1:0:0) nVidia Corporation NV17 [GeForce4 MX 440] rev 163, Mem @ 0xe6000000/24, 0xe8000000/27, 0xe7800000/19, BIOS @ 0xe77e0000/17
(II) NV: driver for NVIDIA chipsets: RIVA 128, RIVA TNT, RIVA TNT2,
Unknown TNT4, Vanta, RIVA TNT2 Ultra, RIVA TNT2 Model 64,
Aladdin TNT2, GeForce 256, GeForce DDR, Quadro, GeForce2 MX/MX 400,
GeForce2 MX 100/200, GeForce2 Go, Quadro2 MXR/EX/Go,
GeForce2 Integrated GPU, GeForce2 GTS, GeForce2 Ti, GeForce2 Ultra,
Quadro2 Pro, GeForce4 MX 460, GeForce4 MX 440, GeForce4 MX 420,
GeForce4 MX 440-SE, GeForce4 440 Go, GeForce4 420 Go,
GeForce4 420 Go 32M, GeForce4 460 Go, GeForce4 440 Go 64M,
GeForce4 410 Go 16M, Quadro4 500 GoGL, Quadro4 550 XGL, Quadro4 NVS,
GeForce4 MX 440 with AGP8X, GeForce4 MX 440SE with AGP8X,
GeForce4 MX 420 with AGP8X, GeForce4 448 Go, GeForce4 488 Go,
Quadro4 580 XGL, Quadro4 280 NVS, Quadro4 380 XGL,
GeForce4 MX Integrated GPU, GeForce3, GeForce3 Ti 200,
GeForce3 Ti 500, Quadro DCC, GeForce4 Ti 4600, GeForce4 Ti 4400,
0x0252, GeForce4 Ti 4200, Quadro4 900 XGL, Quadro4 750 XGL,
Quadro4 700 XGL, GeForce4 Ti 4800, GeForce4 Ti 4200 with AGP8X,
GeForce4 Ti 4800 SE, GeForce4 4200 Go, Quadro4 700 GoGL,
Quadro4 980 XGL, Quadro4 780 XGL, GeForce FX 5800 Ultra,
GeForce FX 5800, Quadro FX 2000, Quadro FX 1000,
GeForce FX 5600 Ultra, GeForce FX 5600, 0x0313, GeForce FX 5600SE,
0x0316, 0x0317, GeForce FX Go5600, GeForce FX Go5650,
Quadro FX Go700, 0x031D, 0x031E, 0x031F, GeForce FX 5200,
GeForce FX 5200 Ultra, GeForce FX 5200, GeForce FX 5200SE,
GeForce FX Go5200, GeForce FX Go5250, GeForce FX Go5200 32M/64M,
0x0329, Quadro NVS 280 PCI, Quadro FX 500, GeForce FX Go5300,
GeForce FX Go5100, 0x032F, GeForce FX 5900 Ultra, GeForce FX 5900,
GeForce FX 5900XT, GeForce FX 5950 Ultra, 0x0334, Quadro FX 3000,
GeForce FX 5700 Ultra, GeForce FX 5700, GeForce FX 5700LE,
GeForce FX 5700VE, 0x0345, GeForce FX Go5700, GeForce FX Go5700,
0x0349, 0x034B, Quadro FX Go1000, Quadro FX 1100, 0x034F
(II) Primary Device is: PCI 01:00:0
(EE) No devices detected.

Fatal server error:
no screens found

Please consult the The X.Org Foundation support
at http://wiki.X.Org
for help.
Please also check the log file at "/var/log/Xorg.1.log" for additional information.
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thechris
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

have you tried:
env-update
source /etc/profile
modules-update

modules update is that one command that seems to fix bizzar issues occasionally, but normally has no effect...
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srlinuxx
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure if udev is the reason or what, but I noticed at least in my experiences, if you don't put nvidia in the modules.autoload, the devices don't get made for it, even if you modprobe nvidia after you log in.

Also, again in my case, I find that nvidia's agpgart works better and that I couldn't get x to use nvidia's agpgart if I built agpgart into the kernel or as a module. Doom3 was freezing up every few seconds on me until I took agpgart out of the kernel.

Another also, I haven't ever had much luck with gentoo's versions of the nvidia drivers. I have no idea why, but they didn't work. I just use the ones downloaded from nvidia's site.

I hope some of this helps yaw.
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jsf_x35a
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a feeling that the nv driver you are using either does not support or does not recognize your card
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 8:35 am    Post subject: emerge xorg-x11 WITHOUT bitmap font support Reply with quote

I can appreciate the reasons for moving away from xfree86 & am happy with the more rapid 'improvements' that are occuring in xorg-x11, but I have had consistent problems since making the change to xorg & have read a number of comments re the number of problems that others have had recently, most notably in the ebuild.

I'm getting a little off topic here, but I don't want to recompile gcc & glibc with USE="-hardened", just so Xorg can load its libraries cleanly, but I'm a big boy & can deal with it for now. HOWEVER, I'm a bit of a neube & get all excited about the idea of my nice shiny "hardened" system & regret that Xorg isn't up to scratch, even if XFree is no better.

I know, that many of these problems were probably in the old XFree86 too, but everything worked nicely before I changed &. I haven't had X stable for any length of time since the change to xorg. Once it does get stable again for most people, I'd personally like to see a little more restraint in unmasking X updates. As it stands, I hesitate to emerge sync && emerge world, not for the download but because it will probably mean no X for a week (>_<). This seems to me to be becoming a pattern.


Last edited by ezza on Fri Jan 07, 2005 8:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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Joe Schmow
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to clarify more info on my system, and getting nvidia-kernel to
work with xorg:


I've tried disabling acpi in my bootloader append, no luck.

I think I've tied modules-update a few times, but because of the order
of things as I continue to trouble shoot this, I'll make sure to keep that
in mind any time i'm loading/unloading new modules.

_________________________________________________
Also, please keep in mind I had this EXACT problem with xfree last week.
I formatted/fdisk'd and am now trying with xorg (which i would prefer at this point) and
still identical results.

I'll keep at it and post when it's resolved.


Sorry, I have no experience emergin xorg-x11 without bitmap support,
but I remember reading in the portage documentation ways to pass
config parameters in portage. I'm sure one of the gentoo experts can help
out with that somewhere int hese forums.

Thanks for all the posts, these forums are super helpful!

-Joe
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russryder
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I vote to have xfree put back into the portage tree until all the bugs in xorg get fixed.
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jonnevers
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whats bugs are in xorg? xorg is just a fork of the latest xfree.... the only problem I have had in moving to xorg from xfree was that the keyboard driver named changed from 'kdb' (in xfree) to 'keyboard' (in xorg).

I have had three nvidia cards used in my machine running xorg. geforce 4 ti4400, 5200ultra, and the new 6600GT agp! None gave me any problems.

a couple questions since there is a lot of missing information (replaced with what appears to be rants):

what kernel's are being used? and subsequently when emerge the nvidia-kernel/glx is the symlink /usr/src/linux pointing to the current kernel source (i.e. the running kernel)? if not, there will be all kinds of problems. technically you don't even need to remerge the nvidia drivers when upgrading to xorg.

the only x log I see depicts a configuration problem, using the NV driver... so that is utterly useless in trying to help you get your system online.

Quote:
I don't think x.org sucks, i think this is a small bug with the 2.6.10-ck
sources/nvidia-kernel or I over looked something.


This is a big one! downgrade your kernel. if you use the nvidia drivers you should be using a kernel less then 2.6.10 (2.6.10 broke nvidia pretty much across the board, there are fixes but get a stable system running first then play with the latest kernel..). I personally use love-sources 2.6.8.1 . try using the gentoo-dev-sources.


also how about posting the xorg.conf and the xorg.0.log file, BUT please oh please, only post the relevant sections, i.e the device/screen section of xorg.conf. and the tail of the xorg lof showing the errors (EE).
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Joe Schmow
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks very much for that, I'll make sure to give a ck-sources
a try that is < 2.6.10 when i get home from work.

If it's not a hassle, can you please post a link where more info
can be found on 2.6.10-ck breaks nvidia-kernel?

I feel like i've been searching for weeks for this information...

Thanks again,

-Joe
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

russryder wrote:
I vote to have xfree put back into the portage tree until all the bugs in xorg get fixed.
Is this a rant, or a support thread?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

russryder wrote:
I vote to have xfree put back into the portage tree until all the bugs in xorg get fixed.

I second that vote. Even though I've already upgraded to Xorg without too much trouble (though they really should make it clear to rename configs to xorg.conf :wink: ), I find it a bit over-exagerated to kick Xfree out of portage like that.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also vote for XFree now.
I never intended to move from XFree now, I am really suprised. :x

You can't imagine what a mess this is I've been working for hours with X that won't start and suddenly I realize that this isn't XFree no more!

Another computer that still works but it has got an ugly looking font. I'm sure that's xorg's fault.

I needed to be prepared for xorg not forced to.

This is bad news for Gentoo! Believe me. I'm not the only one...
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lunarg wrote:
russryder wrote:
I vote to have xfree put back into the portage tree until all the bugs in xorg get fixed.

I second that vote. Even though I've already upgraded to Xorg without too much trouble (though they really should make it clear to rename configs to xorg.conf :wink: ), I find it a bit over-exagerated to kick Xfree out of portage like that.


you mean like when it says this at the end of merging

Code:
 "The configuration file has changed from that in XFree86."
   "It is xorg.conf instead of XF86Config."
   "You may use xorgcfg, X -configure, or xorgconfig"
   "to create xorg.conf."


larand54 wrote:

Another computer that still works but it has got an ugly looking font. I'm sure that's xorg's fault.


Are you sure it isn't your fault by not having any of the font useflags set?
larand54 wrote:

This is bad news for Gentoo! Believe me. I'm not the only one...


As of now, any release of xfree we could ship is well out of date and not supported upstream. More and more bugs have been coming up regarding problems other packages are having with xfree, and being a responsible distro, we don't offer users unsupported packages.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought Gentoo was all about choice. It doesn't seem like my choice of xfree is being supported. I have one computer that I cannot get xorg to work on so my only choice was xfree. Now I can't update that computer since it wants to bring xorg in which I know doesn't work. This isn't what I would call choice.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

larand54 wrote:
I also vote for XFree now.
...
This is bad news for Gentoo! Believe me. I'm not the only one...


okay, enough ranting people, please! Can you name a mainstream Linux distro that still uses Xfree86? Do you even know why no major distros use it anymore? (these are rhetorical questions, that I hope you investigate to get a clearer understanding of what is really going on)

If you have problems with getting xorg to operate correctly, please post up specific information so that we can get your systems online (that is the reason for these forums).

Quote:
I thought Gentoo was all about choice. It doesn't seem like my choice of xfree is being supported. I have one computer that I cannot get xorg to work on so my only choice was xfree. Now I can't update that computer since it wants to bring xorg in which I know doesn't work. This isn't what I would call choice.


There are licensing issues involved with the latest version of xfree. Negative issues. xorg is simply a fork of the latest version of xfree prior to the license revision. (plus a lot of new work!). if it dosen't work for you it must be a configuration issue and not the explicit fault of xorg in and of itself.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonnevers wrote:
I personally use love-sources 2.6.8.1 . try using the gentoo-dev-sources.


I used to use 2.6.8.1 and though it was pretty good, until VMware kept crashing (or even wine apparently), which takes down the whole system. However, a few kernel tweaks to 2.6.9, and it has worked flawlessly for VMware and X (but then I'm still on xfree)
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lunarg wrote:
russryder wrote:
I vote to have xfree put back into the portage tree until all the bugs in xorg get fixed.

I second that vote., I find it a bit over-exagerated to kick Xfree out of portage like that.


Agreed, it's 'little boy thinking' overkill. The right way is to just leave it for a couple of months and make sure that no one is raising any real problems with xorg. It's mushy thinking to say that it was OK yesterday, but not OK today without hearing something from Xfree.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

larand54 wrote:
I also vote for XFree now.
I never intended to move from XFree now, I am really suprised. :x

You can't imagine what a mess this is I've been working for hours with X that won't start and suddenly I realize that this isn't XFree no more!

I needed to be prepared for xorg not forced to.

This is bad news for Gentoo! Believe me. I'm not the only one...


I keep another computer around that has an old portage tree just to prevent the bozos-in-charge from screwing me over on this issue (which has far more emotion than brains associated with it) and others that Gentoo pulls. I can put up ebuilds if anyone needs them.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonnevers wrote:
There are licensing issues involved with the latest version of xfree.


SO WHAT? [same answer to claim that xfree is buggy for some]

I know that it is extremely difficult for you to conceive of the possibility that someone might not want to use the "latest software", but it's true. It will surely come as an enormous shock to you to learn that hundreds of thousands of people are happily running kernel 2.0 and 2.2. Millions of people still use Windows 95.....and yes, lots of us still want XFREE, even if it's a few months old.

The man was right about CHOICE, give us back CHOICE.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonnevers wrote:
There are licensing issues involved with the latest version of xfree. Negative issues.


BULLSHIT

here is Xfree's statement: http://www.xfree86.org/4.4.0/README2.html#2

Licensing

XFree86 source code is covered by many licenses. All of these licenses have in common the fact that they do not impose significant conditions on the modification or redistribution or either source code or binaries beyond requiring one or more of the following:

Copyright and/or license notices are left intact.
Copyright and/or license notices are reproduced verbatim in documentation accompanying binary distributions.
Attributions are included with documentation accompanying binaries.

Most of these licenses are based on the MIT, X Consortium, or BSD (original and revised) licenses. All of them are consistent with the Open Source Definition, and most are consistent with the Free Software Foundation's Free Software Definition.

Copyright and Licensing information for XFree86, including the reproduction of copyright and/or license notices and attributions required by some of the licenses for binary distributions, can be found in the License Document.


----

Is Gentoo claiming ownership of someone else's work? Those requirements look pretty trivial.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

appetitus wrote:

Agreed, it's 'little boy thinking' overkill. The right way is to just leave it for a couple of months and make sure that no one is raising any real problems with xorg. It's mushy thinking to say that it was OK yesterday, but not OK today without hearing something from Xfree.


It was given more then a few months notice : http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.desktop/1271

appetitus wrote:

keep another computer around that has an old portage tree just to prevent the bozos-in-charge from screwing me over on this issue (which has far more emotion than brains associated with it) and others that Gentoo pulls.


Removing a package that is completly unsupported upstream, and that has many bugs filed against it that won't get fixed is just one of the many bozo things we like to do to our users around here, tough break.

appetitus wrote:

The man was right about CHOICE, give us back CHOICE.

It will surely come as an enormous shock to you to learn that hundreds of thousands of people are happily running kernel 2.0 and 2.2. Millions of people still use Windows 95.....and yes, lots of us still want XFREE, even if it's a few months old.


Stop trying to increase your post count with these childish rants. People using packages is much different then distros supporting packages. Nobody is saying you can't install and run xfree on your system. Gentoo just isn't supporting it any more for reasons listed above.

appetitus wrote:

BULLSHIT

here is Xfree's statement: http://www.xfree86.org/4.4.0/README2.html#2


Don't try and cut and paste things about the licensing issues since everybody but you took the 5 seconds to search and read up on why no distro uses xfree-4.4

http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/15996
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

appetitus wrote:
jonnevers wrote:
I personally use love-sources 2.6.8.1 . try using the gentoo-dev-sources.


I used to use 2.6.8.1 and though it was pretty good, until VMware kept crashing (or even wine apparently), which takes down the whole system. However, a few kernel tweaks to 2.6.9, and it has worked flawlessly for VMware and X (but then I'm still on xfree)


I was running the 2.6.9 kernel with the ck-patches with no problem in xorg... the problem was with that kernel in some games, the sound would stutter. So I went back to my 2.6.8.1 back-up and the sound issue went away. It has been awhile since I loaded up VMware, but cedega ran comparably in both of the above mentioned kernel as did xorg.
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lunarg
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Joined: 07 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

joem wrote:
lunarg wrote:
russryder wrote:
I vote to have xfree put back into the portage tree until all the bugs in xorg get fixed.

I second that vote. Even though I've already upgraded to Xorg without too much trouble (though they really should make it clear to rename configs to xorg.conf :wink: ), I find it a bit over-exagerated to kick Xfree out of portage like that.


you mean like when it says this at the end of merging

Code:
 "The configuration file has changed from that in XFree86."
   "It is xorg.conf instead of XF86Config."
   "You may use xorgcfg, X -configure, or xorgconfig"
   "to create xorg.conf."



Right.... :oops:

(But in my defense, it's difficult to read that specific line of text when you're doing emerge -u xorg-x11; it's not like I'm staring at the scrolling lines of text when compiling things like X).
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