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Kumba
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:56 pm    Post subject: Gentoo/MIPS LiveCD [VERY EXPERIMENTAL!!] Reply with quote

If the topic hasn't provided any indication yet, this is a topic for discussion of the LiveCD design the Mips Team has debated, pondered, and worked on. This is a very experimental design, and differs from the traditional concept of bootable CDs greatly, primarily due to the inability of SGI PROMs to read ISO9660 format.

Essentially, the CD is partitioned like a disk, complete with an SGI Disklabel, a Volume Header (and Volume) partitions, and a data partition containing the root filesystem. This approach was taken because it should work universally across all SGI systems (in theory), provided a arcboot binary and kernel designed for that system is available.

Several things to note regarding this method of design:
  • The kernel is patched to allow detection of the partitions on the CDROM. This patch is experimental, was briefly discussed on LKML in Feb 2004, and will trigger a couple 'Call Traces' in dmesg, which so far, appear to be relatively harmless.

    It would be much appreciated if anyone out there familiar with the block device subsystem of the kernel would be willing to take a look at this patch, and see if it can't be whipped up into something more functional. Posted below are some links of interests:
    http://lwn.net/Articles/72929/ (Article)
    http://lwn.net/Articles/72676/ (Original Patch)
    http://seclists.org/lists/linux-kernel/2004/Feb/5753.html (LKML Discussion from Feb 2004)

  • Arcboot is rather slow at loading kernels off the disc. I have been told that there's not much of a way around this for some reason (that I can't recall atm), but with this current test, expect Indy kernels to take upwards of ~10 minutes to boot and load. I hope to resolve this to some degree by modularizing the kernels and shrinking them down (they're monolithic for now).

  • The userland on the CD is basically the 20040802 netboot userland, just copied into the data partition of the CD. Eventually, I'll figure out catalyst enough to build a real Gentoo LiveCD root, and use that for testing, but this suffices for now as it is merely to test the actual design (skeleton, if you will) of the CD.

  • This CD only boots Indy/Indigo2 and O2 systems (r4k, r5k, rm5k2) right now, as that's pretty much the only ones Arcboot can boot for now (O2 RM7K is untested). Further support for other systems *might* be possible, but this is highly dependent on whether we can coax a 64-bit arcboot out, and that's not exactly an easy thing to do.

Further information can be found in the file titled "README". I encourage everyone to read that first, then ask questions. MD5 and SHA1 sums have also been provided.

Oh, and before I forget, you can find the test image (mips-livecd-prototype-rc1-20041025.img) on the mirrors in experimental/mips/livecd. Use this topic for any discussion regarding this CD, and for questions, comments, flames, ideas, patches, etc...


--Kumba
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mattpayne
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

is there an image available that can be burnt from a windows PC??? (currently only machine with CDRW :) )

also, how do you put the environment back to default on the O2...

when i start it up it now doesnt boot, as its looking to boot from the CD...
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Kumba
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're using a Windows system to burn, then the best I can suggest is a program that doesn't try to force anything. It should just let you select the file and burn it. The file itself is not an ISO image, but burninjg it as if it was an ISO *might* work. I'm not for certain on this, however, as I haven't done burning from Windows for quite a long while.

As for resetting the O2 to defaults, just get into the PROM Command monitor and you shou7ld be fine. It sounds like to read the README file and set the four variables accordingly, but left your system in autoboot mode. If you can get into the prom (usually by pressing ESC at bootup on the graphical or serial console), then you can issue "setenv AutoLoad No" and that will disable auto booting and always drop you to the Prom monitor on serial, or a graphical prom screen.


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Kumba
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, if you download the CD image, check it's file size and md5sum/sha1sum. There appeared to have been some kind of hiccup during the mirror transfer process that caused only 302MB of 335MB to get uploaded. Make sure that if you downloaded the incomplete copy to re-download the fixed copy.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, just redownloaded the CD, I was lazy, and didnt check the MD5 and had only downloaded 302mb!

Image burned fine on my windows PC (changed file extention to iso and burned with nero)

My O2 recognises and loads arcboot from the CD but crashes after about 4 mins...

I get a screen that looks like the normal O2 boot screen (with a ghosted box where 'stop for maintainance' ususallly is) but with a frozen mouse pointer and lots of graphical corruption... the only way out is to hold the power button in and reset the machine...
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zeroing memory
Starting 32-bit kernel

are the last 2 commands shown on the screen before the machine fails...


I now cannot get the machine to boot to the hard drive... the setenv commands are saved to the prom so its always trying to boot from the CD...

Booting the system normally (without anything in the CD drive) gives me this command box -
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


dks0d4s8: Drive not ready:Medium not present
dks0d4s8: drive is not ready

Unable to execute pci(0)scsi(0)disk(4)rdisk(0)parttion(8)/ip32 media not loaded

No volume header on device: pci(0)scsi(0)disk(4)rdisk(0)partition(8)/ip32

Unable to boot; press any key to continue:


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

at which point im dropped back at the maintainance menu...
how do i reset the environment variables back to default so it will boot cleanly from the hard drive?? ive tried power of and power cable out over night, but looks as though the setenv saved into the prom... :(
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattpayne, if you do "help" in the PROM monitor you will see a option called "resetenv". this resets the PROM environment to default settings.
then do "init" which will save and reset the O2. make sure to check if the settings are ok with "printenv".
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mattpayne
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

freshy98 wrote:
mattpayne, if you do "help" in the PROM monitor you will see a option called "resetenv". this resets the PROM environment to default settings.
then do "init" which will save and reset the O2. make sure to check if the settings are ok with "printenv".



yep :) thats fixed it, cheers :)
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Kumba

I tried the experimental liveCD but it failed for me too.
I used it via serial console on my O2 R5k 180MHz 256Mb (without screen and keyboard attached), the kernel seems to load fine but crashed at start :
Code:

> boot -f ip32
52544+256 entry: 0x80804c44

arcsboot: ARCS Linux ext2fs loader 0.3.8.4

Loading ip32r5k from pci(0)scsi(0)disk(4)rdisk(0)partition(7)

Header says 32-bit
Allocated 0x60 bytes for segments

Loading 32-bit executable
Loading program segment 2 at 0x80004000, offset=0x4000, size = 0x5ab086
0x5a7000
Zeroing memory at 0x805af086, size = 0x2f3fa
Starting 32-bit kernel

Exception: <vector=XUT>
Status register: 0x940100e2<CU3,CU0,FR,DE,IPL=8,KX,SX,UX,MODE=KERNEL>
Cause register: 0x800c<CE=0,IP8,EXC=WMISS>
Exception PC: 0x80028c64, Exception RA: 0x80029c38
Write TLB miss exception, bad address: 0x6d617020
  Saved user regs in hex (&gpda 0x81061838, &_regs 0x81061a38):
  arg: 81070000 a 4ca a
  tmp: 81070000 804d3a28 805b1160 80810d64 80810d60 a13fabe8 80810000 7
  sve: 81070000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
  t8 81070000 t9 0 at 0 v0 0 v1 0 k1 804aa654
  gp 81070000 fp 0 sp 0 ra 0

PANIC: Unexpected exception

[Press reset or ENTER to restart.]


Sorry guy ! :oops:
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Kumba
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

poulpe wrote:
Hello Kumba

I tried the experimental liveCD but it failed for me too.
I used it via serial console on my O2 R5k 180MHz 256Mb (without screen and keyboard attached), the kernel seems to load fine but crashed at start :


Hmm, that's interesting. Post your PROM version and hinv data, I'd like to compare, it could possibly be an older prom does like that CD.

There's also a RC2 of the experimental livecd up. Have you tried that one too?, and just to be safe, does the sha1sum/md5sum of what you downloaded and burned match what I have posted on the mirrors?


The CD boots properly on my test O2, which has this data:
Code:
> hinv
                   System: IP32
                Processor: 180 Mhz R5000, with FPU
     Primary I-cache size: 32 Kbytes
     Primary D-cache size: 32 Kbytes
     Secondary cache size: 512 Kbytes
              Memory size: 128 Mbytes
                 Graphics: CRM, Rev C
                    Audio: A3 version 1
                SCSI Disk: scsi(0)disk(1)
                SCSI Disk: scsi(0)disk(2)
               SCSI CDROM: scsi(0)cdrom(4)

Code:
> version


PROM Monitor (BE)
Tue Oct 22 10:58:00 PDT 2002
VERSION 4.18
O2 R5K/R7K/R10K/R12K
IRIX 6.5.x IP32prom IP32PROM-v4



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried liveCD RC2 and it seems to works perfectly on both serial console and framebuffer output... Amazing work Kumba ! :D

Since I have some spare scsi disks, I'll try to bootstrap the system from the liveCD.

By the way, my PROM parameters are:
Quote:

> hinv
System: IP32
Processor: 180 Mhz R5000, with FPU
Primary I-cache size: 32 Kbytes
Primary D-cache size: 32 Kbytes
Secondary cache size: 512 Kbytes
Memory size: 256 Mbytes
Graphics: CRM, Rev C
Audio: A3 version 1
SCSI Disk: scsi(0)disk(1)
SCSI CDROM: scsi(0)cdrom(4)

> version
PROM Monitor (BE)
Tue Oct 22 10:58:00 PDT 2002
VERSION 4.18
O2 R5K/R7K/R10K/R12K
IRIX 6.5.x IP32prom IP32PROM-v4


I can also report that X is working fine with the framebuffer but in 640x480, it looks terrible (and I could not find another working resolution)... GBE framebuffer needs obviously some more work...
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Kumba
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

poulpe wrote:
I tried liveCD RC2 and it seems to works perfectly on both serial console and framebuffer output... Amazing work Kumba ! :D

Since I have some spare scsi disks, I'll try to bootstrap the system from the liveCD.

Excellent news!

I don't forsee an RC3 of the CD anytime soon as I probe around for assistance on the CDROM partition patch, and see what develops as far as bootloaders go for these systems. The framework is pretty good, but one never knows what other utilities popup to assist in this regard. I'll eventually create a real LiveCD root userland and mix that in with the setup I got to see how that works....that'll probably comprise an RC3.


Quote:
I can also report that X is working fine with the framebuffer but in 640x480, it looks terrible (and I could not find another working resolution)... GBE framebuffer needs obviously some more work...

We've got a guy in the gentoo-mips IRC channel whose a really good X driver hacker, and he's just finished some amazing work on the Indy/Indigo2 Newport driver, and he just got himself an O2, so perhaps we'll have some really nice uses for that too in the future.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

heres the HINV from my O2 which the CD didnt work quite right...

What command do you put in the shell to get the prom version???

Quote:

hinv
CPU: MIPS R5000 Processor Chip Revision: 2.1
FPU: MIPS R5000 Floating Point Coprocessor Revision: 1.0
1 180 MHZ IP32 Processor
Main memory size: 192 Mbytes
Secondary unified instruction/data cache size: 512 Kbytes on Processor 0
Instruction cache size: 32 Kbytes
Data cache size: 32 Kbytes
FLASH PROM version 4.18
Integral SCSI controller 0: Version ADAPTEC 7880
Disk drive: unit 1 on SCSI controller 0
CDROM: unit 4 on SCSI controller 0
Integral SCSI controller 1: Version ADAPTEC 7880
On-board serial ports: tty1
On-board serial ports: tty2
On-board EPP/ECP parallel port
CRM graphics installed
Integral Ethernet: ec0, version 1
Iris Audio Processor: version A3 revision 0
Video: MVP unit 0 version 1.4
with no AV Card or Camera.
Vice: TRE
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Kumba
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattpayne wrote:
heres the HINV from my O2 which the CD didnt work quite right...

What command do you put in the shell to get the prom version???

It looks like you used hinv from IRIX, not the PROM Monitor, which is the command line mode available before IRIX boots.

Suffice to say, though, that hinv provides enough data. It tells not only the CPU class and everything, it also provides you're PROM version as "4.18".


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Kumba - great work :D

This O2....

Code:

> hinv
                   System: IP32
                Processor: 200 Mhz R5000, with FPU
     Primary I-cache size: 32 K
     Primary D-cache size: 32 K
     Secondary cache size: 1024 K
              Memory size: 256 Mbytes
                 Graphics: CRM, Rev C
                    Audio: A3 version 1
                SCSI Disk: scsi(0)disk(1)
               SCSI CDROM: scsi(0)cdrom(4)


Code:

> version
PROM Monitor (BE)
Tue Dec 15 11:47:20 PST 1998
VERSION 4.11
O2 R5000/R10000
IRIX 6.3 IP32prom IP32PROM-v4


booted a treat after following the instructions. dmesg can be seen at:

http://www.puszczka.com/~andy/o2-dmesg.html

Now to tear myself away from the hppa boxes long enough to actually install this baby. There's an R5KSC Indy with 24bit Newport waiting for similar treatment too.

-Andy
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For info, I successfully bootstrapped/emerged system from scratch (with LiveCD RC2) and rebooted my O2 r5k with my own custom kernel from hard drive.
No netboot was used during the process !
Once again great work Kumba ! :D
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poulpe, Kumba

I'm almost there too. System is boostrapped and emerged. Hit a snag with an undefined IRQ compiling 2.6.9 + mipscvs-2.6.9-20041022, and I'm not sure my .config is totally sane as its my first mips/sgi kernel. Hopefully I'll get it sorted tonight. Yeehaa!

-Andy
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, I'm new to all this and I've run into a few problems building a kernel for the O2 I mentioned above. Kernel source checked out of CVS last night. I'm compiling native on the bootstrapped/emerged Gentoo system.

Code:

  CC      drivers/char/rtc.o
drivers/char/rtc.c: In function `rtc_init':
drivers/char/rtc.c:974: error: `MACEISA_RTC_IRQ' undeclared (first use in this function)
drivers/char/rtc.c:974: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
drivers/char/rtc.c:974: error: for each function it appears in.)
drivers/char/rtc.c: In function `rtc_exit':
drivers/char/rtc.c:1087: error: `MACEISA_RTC_IRQ' undeclared (first use in this function)
make[2]: *** [drivers/char/rtc.o] Error 1
make[1]: *** [drivers/char] Error 2
make: *** [drivers] Error 2


Fixed that one by including <asm/ip32/ip32_ints.h> in <asm/mach-ip32/mc146818rtc.h>

Code:

  CC      drivers/video/gbefb.o
drivers/video/gbefb.c: In function `gbefb_probe':
drivers/video/gbefb.c:1125: error: `options' undeclared (first use in this function)
drivers/video/gbefb.c:1125: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
drivers/video/gbefb.c:1125: error: for each function it appears in.)
make[2]: *** [drivers/video/gbefb.o] Error 1
make[1]: *** [drivers/video] Error 2
make: *** [drivers] Error 2


Fixed that one by changing "options" to "option" in gbefb.c

Code:

  LD      vmlinux
ld:lib/lib.a: file format not recognized; treating as linker script
ld:lib/lib.a:1: syntax error
make: *** [vmlinux] Error 1


That one's got me flummoxed. Ideas?

Tool versions are:
Code:

gcc version 3.4.1 20040803 (Gentoo Linux 3.4.1-r3, ssp-3.4-2, pie-8.7.6.5)
GNU ld version 2.14.90.0.8 20040114
GNU assembler version 2.14.90.0.8 (mips-unknown-linux-gnu) using BFD version 2.14.90.0.8 20040114


Now I've added ~mips to the ACCEPT_KEYWORDS and when 'emerge -uD world' has doen its stuff I'll try building the kernel again with the updated gcc/binutils, but is this going to help me?

Last question - can I boot the O2 directly from a kernel in the volume header (as the Gentoo Handbook suggests) or will I need arcboot? And if I need arcboot, how do all the bits fit together (arcboot/kernel/volume header etc?)

cheers,
-Andy
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Following up myself here - I've read the man page for arcboot and I think I'm getting the big picture now.

Very confused about 32 vs. 64 bit though. I thought R5000 was a 32 bit arch, but you only get to build an ip32 kernel if you select CONFIG_MIPS64. Huh?

Also, linking doesn't seem to work unless CONFIG_BUILD_ELF64 is selected. From the Config Help this seems to be a limitation in later binutils - is it correct to select this? Will it work? I noticed that the kernel on the livecd didn't have this selected, so I guess it was built with older binutils. Any tips or explanations will be received with much gratitude.

-Andy
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that building a good working kernel for an O2 is far from easy.

You should use one of the 2.6.x ebuild provided in portage 'mips-sources' instead of using straight CVS method cause Kumba added some 'well-known' patches which are not integrated into CVS. The problem of 'option' vs 'options' in GBE framebuffer is a good example but there are other fixes too => it is most likely that your framebuffer will not work at all if you compile from CVS sources.

R5000 is a 32bit arch but you need to build a 64bit kernel to get arcboot to work (and this way, boot from the hard drive instead of netboot). This allows also to use more than 256Mb of RAM in your O2. There is normally a performance loss with a 64bit kernel but I don't find it significant for now.

You'll find at the URL below the config I used to build my kernel and the output of dmesg after the boot. I used the mips-sources-2.6.9-r2 ebuild to generate the kernel.

http://nova.dyndns.org/config-spoutnik.txt
http://nova.dyndns.org/boot-spoutnik.txt

Hope that helps! :roll:
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2004 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

squawker wrote:
Very confused about 32 vs. 64 bit though. I thought R5000 was a 32 bit arch, but you only get to build an ip32 kernel if you select CONFIG_MIPS64. Huh?


Use mips-sources, as these have a lot of things fixed properly for O2.

In regards to the underlying oddities, R5000 is a real 64bit processor. So is the R4000 and sub-members of the R4x00 family. The O2 under IRIX I believe ran as a 32bit, however under Linux, we use a 64bit kernel, but there is a catch: The IP32 PROM can't boot true 64bit kernels (hereby referred to as n64. So, we use a hack that's found in gcc/binutils called the o64 ABI, which is sorta defined as the default 32bit ABI (o32) "extended" to 64bits. This builds an object file that looks like a 32bit file to the "file" utility, but really contains 64bit code.

That said, pure CVS from linux-mips.org will not compile correctly for O2 because of several things missing in the Makefile to handle the SGI O2 and the o64 nature of the kernel. The fix I use is probably not the preferred method, so It's not something I've sent upstream yet. IP22 systems can also boot a 64bit kernel using this same trick, so in theory, any such fix would need to take into account the IP22 and IP32 systems, but Makefile syntax isn't exactly friendly in regards to logical operators in if statements.

Plus, by using mips-sources, you get sources which also have security fixes applied to them, which while mips probably isn't as badly affected as x86, is still a GoodThing(TM).


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi,
thanks for the live-cd. after some problems, caused by the use of a cd-rw instead of a simple cdr (the installed o2 cdrom seems to be a bit picky), the machine booted. but to my disappointment, it still refuses to work with my installed tft-panel (1600SW). so all i saw was a black screen. is there some workaround for this behaviour yet?
unfortunatly im neither a kernel hacker nor am i able to program C any good. but i nevertheless would like to share my experiences on this topic for anyone giving me a kernel that might work. maybe kumba remembers some talk we had about this. one of his kernels actually gave some weired output to the panel.

or is it true, and i am the only one, using that panel? 8O

regards,
harry
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silly question and of no practical use to myself - my machines will both boot from the live CD anyway. Would it be possible to bootstrap some of the newer boxes from a cd by using sash off an irix boot install cd to boot a kernel? I might give it a go just for interest's sake anyway.
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lhaza
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Joined: 26 May 2006
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had the following experiences with the Live-CD rc5 on my irixboxen:
O2 r10k sash not found
Octane2 r12k sash not found
Fuel r14ka
ARCLoader version 0.43 (c) Stanislaw Skowronek
Loading configuration for 'unix'...
Detecting system parameters

here it hangs for at least 10 minutes. what surprised me that it kinda worked best on the fuel-box. :)

greetings
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lhaza wrote:
I had the following experiences with the Live-CD rc5 on my irixboxen:
O2 r10k sash not found


Known issue... R10k O2 support is out-of-the-question until such time as the speculative execution/cache coherancy issues with the R10k CPU have been sorted out.
Until then, R10k O2 is officially unsupported.

Quote:
Octane2 r12k sash not found


Hrmm... that should work... Odd that it should look for sash, and not sash64... I think something's up.

Quote:
Fuel r14ka


Unless you feel like donating one to the Gentoo/MIPS team ... this will never work, due to the prohibitive costs of these machines. Linux doesn't work at all on these machines, as nobody with the knowhow and equipment has tried porting Linux to these systems.

Quote:
ARCLoader version 0.43 (c) Stanislaw Skowronek
Loading configuration for 'unix'...
Detecting system parameters

here it hangs for at least 10 minutes. what surprised me that it kinda worked best on the fuel-box. :)
greetings


And you'd be one of the first people in the world to try running ARCLoad on a Fuel ... but not one of the first to succeed.
As stated in the docs... the Fuel is Unsupported.
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Stuart Longland (a.k.a Redhatter, VK4MSL)
I haven't lost my mind - it's backed up on a tape somewhere...

Gentoo/MIPS Cobalt developer, Mozilla herd member.
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