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neutralstone
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Certainly for me, or more precisely my partner, every last iota of performance that can be coaxed out of the machine is critical, when things are taking 30+ days to run even 0.01% performance increases become measurable & welcome. I also have experience of running non-FPU CPU system so if anyone wants to say compiler options are meaningless I’ll happily pull out my R-PC 700 and give them a demonstration on the (creative?) use of optimisation flags & the minor modification of source to reap gains (something in which gentoo excels). Gentoo lets me optimise my system quickly and efficiently thus will be the unix of choice for the next big workstation. This is said what 4~5 hours into an, incomplete, install. I know I’ve not even scratched the surface of what gentoo is about but just working on basic impression & I’ll admit to being sceptical but I’m not going to stop until I’ve tested it properly
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:36 pm    Post subject: Opinions and Assholes Reply with quote

Quote:
Again, I say this guy should use Gentoo for at least 6 months before he wants to say it sucks.
I couldn't agree more.

In my experience, opinions are like assholes, everybody has one.

Now informed opinions... those are another thing entirely.
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scap1784
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i just like portage, my friends say i am emerge crazy!
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darkarchon
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Gentoo all the way Reply with quote

Toth wrote:

And until compiling even the largest pieces of software takes no more than 20 minutes or so your "average joe" will not want to use Gentoo.


Gentoo users do not have an issue with the compile times because they have other things to entertain them besides a computer i.e. the real world.

A Gentoo user will kick off a 2-day compile and not even think twice. Because as the computer crunches away he is engaged in real world activites such as: partying, shopping, exercising, socializing, sleeping, eating, having his picture taken with Daniel Robbins, etc.

Being infatuated with one minute installations may be a sign that some folks are just not secure enough to step away from their computers. These people are just not comfortable in the real world and are terrified of having to face their insecurity for any longer than one minute. Hence the obsession with one minute installations.

I wonder if they extend the one minute limit to other aspects of life.

:lol:
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow I started this thread a very long time ago! :D

Having used Gentoo more and more, and now it being my OS on my box, I'd have to say this: the USE flags are awesome, the compile times are a bit tedious (for *some* things :) hey, 1.9ghz isn't as fast as it used to be!). I love the flexibility. I truly believe Gentoo feels faster because of the fact that you don't have 50,000 services running when you start it as is sometimes the case in distros like RedHat.

This makes for a snappier system, as I am pretty picky about what I let run on my startup. Plus, the system overall feels much lighter. :)

:)

Gentoo is truly an awesome OS.
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Aurora
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Gentoo all the way Reply with quote

darkarchon wrote:
Toth wrote:

And until compiling even the largest pieces of software takes no more than 20 minutes or so your "average joe" will not want to use Gentoo.


Gentoo users do not have an issue with the compile times because they have other things to entertain them besides a computer i.e. the real world.

A Gentoo user will kick off a 2-day compile and not even think twice. Because as the computer crunches away he is engaged in real world activites such as: partying, shopping, exercising, socializing, sleeping, eating, having his picture taken with Daniel Robbins, etc.

Being infatuated with one minute installations may be a sign that some folks are just not secure enough to step away from their computers. These people are just not comfortable in the real world and are terrified of having to face their insecurity for any longer than one minute. Hence the obsession with one minute installations.

I wonder if they extend the one minute limit to other aspects of life.

:lol:


lmao...this was a great post. :D Thanks for the good laugh.
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darkarchon
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh and another thing....

Gentoo users are inherently secure individuals. We are engulfed by three very interesting, yet bold colors: lime green, light purple, and dark purple. Yet we have no qualms about it.

Most red-blooded males (at least the American ones) would rather shoot themselves than be caught in the vicinity of lime green and purple (light and dark), because of the underlying implications. They have an insecurity of being cast as effeminate.

But Gentoo users love this color scheme, especially the lighter shade of purple.

:lol:
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darkarchon
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been messing with Linux for about 6 months or so. I have tried the following: Mandrake, SuSe, and Gentoo. I tried them all on the same machine.

Mandrake and SuSe just seemed slow and bloated. I then tried Gentoo and it felt faster. I don't know why but it just does.

In each case I did the basic install. I am not good enough to engage in complex optimizations or tweaks. I just did as little as I could to get the machine up. And I compared Mandrake 10 CE to Gentoo. Gentoo won me over.

Well the purple kinda did its part too. :wink:
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't use gentoo for the reason it's faster, I use it becouse I love the way everything is set up. And I wold't last a day without portage :)
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ebrostig
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't care how long it takes to compile a new program. Why? Simply because I go about my usual business while it compiles. It's not like your PC is bogged down and can not do anything else.

Today i was running a testcase under Oracle 10g while my box was happily compiling Gnome 2.6. That was the only way I could get Hot-Babe to strip all of her clothes!

Erik
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Aurora
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ebrostig wrote:
I don't care how long it takes to compile a new program. Why? Simply because I go about my usual business while it compiles. It's not like your PC is bogged down and can not do anything else.

Today i was running a testcase under Oracle 10g while my box was happily compiling Gnome 2.6. That was the only way I could get Hot-Babe to strip all of her clothes!

Erik


LMAO!

Ohhhh man you totally made my day. :D

I guess I might have to find something big to emerge :D
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gwion
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ebrostig wrote:
I don't care how long it takes to compile a new program. Why? Simply because I go about my usual business while it compiles. It's not like your PC is bogged down and can not do anything else.

Today i was running a testcase under Oracle 10g while my box was happily compiling Gnome 2.6. That was the only way I could get Hot-Babe to strip all of her clothes!

Erik


could not agree more, i just emerged openoffice-1.1.1 and used my box like usual - cd-burning, file transfers etc etc. even on my server - an old pII 450 MHz, running headless without X - i compile every piece of software, while people in the lab are using it heavily :D (i admit, most compiles are small programmes and updates here).

and i have to get that hot-babe stuff installed :twisted:
cheers,

gwion
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Toth
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 1:43 am    Post subject: Re: Gentoo all the way Reply with quote

darkarchon wrote:
Toth wrote:

And until compiling even the largest pieces of software takes no more than 20 minutes or so your "average joe" will not want to use Gentoo.


Gentoo users do not have an issue with the compile times because they have other things to entertain them besides a computer i.e. the real world.

A Gentoo user will kick off a 2-day compile and not even think twice. Because as the computer crunches away he is engaged in real world activites such as: partying, shopping, exercising, socializing, sleeping, eating, having his picture taken with Daniel Robbins, etc.

Being infatuated with one minute installations may be a sign that some folks are just not secure enough to step away from their computers. These people are just not comfortable in the real world and are terrified of having to face their insecurity for any longer than one minute. Hence the obsession with one minute installations.

I wonder if they extend the one minute limit to other aspects of life.

:lol:

Pretty funny. I do hope this is a joke :roll:

Non-gentoo users also have lives. We just install our software in a few moments, get our work done, and then leave our computer to do such things as socialize, party, exercise, etc.

darkarchon wrote:
Mandrake and SuSe just seemed slow and bloated. I then tried Gentoo and it felt faster. I don't know why but it just does.

Bloated? I'll give you that. Faster? Perhaps slightly. More than likely it's just the placebo effect ;)

ebrostig wrote:
I don't care how long it takes to compile a new program. Why? Simply because I go about my usual business while it compiles. It's not like your PC is bogged down and can not do anything else.

Today i was running a testcase under Oracle 10g while my box was happily compiling Gnome 2.6. That was the only way I could get Hot-Babe to strip all of her clothes!

Hah! :)
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darkarchon
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Gentoo all the way Reply with quote

Toth wrote:
Pretty funny. I do hope this is a joke :roll:


Yes, of course. Just having a little fun. Life is about choices. Different strokes for different folks. Some say toh-may-to. Some say toh-mah-to. :lol:



Toth wrote:
Bloated? I'll give you that. Faster? Perhaps slightly. More than likely it's just the placebo effect ;)


Perception often induces its own reality. :wink:
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First off let me disclaim this post by saying that I don't use gentoo anymore. Reason that I'm still in the forums is that the community is awesome, and I'll be here until the forums die. And I'll always advocate gentoo to anyone who wants to try out a really amazing distro.

CFLAGS optimization is debatable whether it really helps or not. I did a week long benchmarking session, with many different CFLAG settings on multiple gentoo stage 1 installs, and nowhere did I come out with significantly better benchmarks than my slackware binary install. When I got really aggressive (-O3 -march=pentium3 -msse2; I was using pentium M thinkpad), my scores were lower than slackwares. I was using "openssl speed dsa rsa." YMMV though, I'm sure my benchmarks arent 100% conclusive.

The speed ( really responsiveness ) increase that I think most people see from gentoo is people who are using the 2.4 kernels in their other distros. The gentoo kernel has the preempt patch for 2.4. Preempting really helps responsiveness, it might have the anticipatory scheduler as well, I'm not sure but I think I remember it did.

That being said, there are many many reasons to compile from source other than optimization, and many reasons to use gentoo other than just compiling from source.

You cannot have security without compiling from source. One would surely notice a backdoor in the source code at one of the repositories, and the knowledge would spread like wildfire, especially in a community like this. This is not the case with binary distros.

You cannot customize binary distros nearly as well. USE flags are amazing. I know that not many people use them, but they are seriously one of the best things that gentoo has.

Other reasons to use gentoo other than compiling from source: The kernel patches are INCREDIBLE, the community is awesome, and the documentation cannot be matched.


Last edited by ponds on Tue Apr 13, 2004 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

edit: quote is not edit.
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Syntaxis
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ponds wrote:
You cannot have security without compiling from source. One would surely notice a backdoor in the source code at one of the repositories

This assumes that people who would actually be able to spot the backdoor will be looking. Additionally, the more people are convinced that a backdoor *would* be spotted quickly, the less likely they are to bother looking for themselves.

Still, it'd be nice if e.g. the Debian build process were more easily reproducible so that one could build any given source packages and be confident of ending up with debs identical to those in the archive. I personally don't have any real problem placing my trust in the developers, but it'd be great to be able to audit the provided source and be confident that it's the *actual* source used to generate the provided binary packages.

But hey, it mightn't be all that far off... It looks like the policy requirements wrt packages being buildable from source are going to be tightened up considerably post-Sarge (http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2004/debian-devel-200403/msg01604.html) and this, together with source-only uploads (http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2003/debian-devel-200311/msg01180.html) to ensure that all the debs entering the archive have been built in the pristine build environments provided by the autobuilders, would go a long way towards making this a reality.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gwion wrote:


and i have to get that hot-babe stuff installed :twisted:
cheers,

gwion

:D
where is the hot-babe stuff in portage, :oops:
I want it too
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a laptop I used at work and I always had gentoo installed on it, when I got the new one just for giggles I tried Fedora FC2 it took almost 3 minutes to extract a linux tarball. I gave up on it after that, I figure anything that must be installed on a RH box can be installed somewhere else.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:40 am    Post subject: Re: Gentoo all the way Reply with quote

Evangelion wrote:
Sergio1704 wrote:
3) Compilation times: again, yes, it can be a problem, but time will take care of it. Remember what the average PCs were like 5 years ago and then imagine what they could be like in 5 years time.


Yes, computers will get alot faster. And software ewill get alot bigger. In 5 years we will be running KDE 5.2 (for example). And I bet the compilation-time of that beast is about same as compilation-time of KDE3.1 on todays machines. Of course, the machine of the future will compile todays KDE3.1 in 1 hour or something, but how fast will it compile it's contemporary KDE?


I was thinking the same thing, maybe whe should call it gates law.

Personally I have gotten better compile performance tweaking the -j* in mkopts than anything else, especially on big packages like gcc and glibc.
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asimon
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just found Gentoo is Rice.

Edit: Oops. Ignore it, I just saw there is already a thread about it.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Portage, the only package management system I've found that works.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always hear about how Gentoo "feel more responsive 'cause is compiled by source". I personaly believe this is bull s**t. That does not mean that I don't like Gentoo. :) But I think the smooth sensation with gentoo comes from the gentoo-sources, which are based on ck patches. And that's all. Period. I don't think you can gain that much with compiler optimizations. With certain packages yes, like glibc for example, but those are optimised on other distributions too, for certain CPUs.

If someone wants to prove that I am terribly wrong, should install a Redhat with gentoo sources. I bet it will feel that it will be "as responsive as gentoo". ;)

Gentoo power came from other places: easy update of the packages, able to customise things from the start, with USE stuff, and so on. Regarding the speed, well, let me have my doubts. :)
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

asimon wrote:
Just found Gentoo is Rice.

Edit: Oops. Ignore it, I just saw there is already a thread about it.


a heck of a site,
saw that my quote being posted as an example there 8O :evil:

Code:
"I love building all sources from scratch, then it will be optimized and made to run smooth for MY machine. as Debian normally uses binary packages, yeah dependencies crap may happen, that's odd, you might as well just switch to pure source base distro, right."

here is the original one from my thread
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=178570&highlight=
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I honestly think that Gentoo is not faster, but is more efficent because you only install what you want with what dependencies you think you need, RedHat If you want a desktop with KDE and apache and games etc, its 2.1 GBs whereas gentoo it's about 1.1 Gbs. I just started using gentoo, I switch distributions like I do women, I mean Gentoo is kind of liek crux http://crux.nu but its ports are better crux does not have dependency tracking so you have to manually do it, I have used linux since 1994 when I was 10 and I had a Gateway 2000 66MHz and I have used about 40 distributions and my conclusion is Linux is linux some distros alter it, It depends on who you are, I can justify someone not liking gentoo, I can justify someone loving gentoo, I love gentoo, I want to stick with it. I think the whole point of linux is that you can customize you can go with any distro hell one size fits all, Windowes you can't do that there is only 1 windows distribution and some like it but I hate it. You catch what I'm saying, I mean hell I see why some love windows.
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