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Poll: Gentoo or Debian?
Gentoo is better.
87%
 87%  [ 41 ]
Debian is better.
12%
 12%  [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 47

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beastmaster
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 7:25 pm    Post subject: Gentoo vs Debian ===== Poll is here ===== Reply with quote

I see that the only one can stand challenging Gentoo is Debian, both are advanced source based linux distros.
Any pros that Debian has that Gentoo doesn't have, or vice versa?

So how do you guys think, which one you think is better.
And also add your opinions of why it is better over one another. :lol:


Last edited by beastmaster on Thu May 27, 2004 8:43 pm; edited 4 times in total
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ralph
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Debian is source based? 8O
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

never use Debian, so I don't know but thought that it is 8O
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beastmaster
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was making a poll, but weird.. it doesn't work. you mods know how? 8O
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Debian is NOT source based. Where did you hear that?

(of course its compiled from source, but then every distro on earth is source based)
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beastmaster
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

like I said, I never use it, so I don't know 8O
somehow read that from debian's...

8O,if debian is not source based, then why does it have source packages...?
it's binary based?
8O 8O 8O
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NaRF
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it has both. source packages and binary packages.

you can download the source packages, unpack them (maybe patch the sources/change s.th. in the code) and then build a debian binary-package out of it by running a special tool.

but normally you just install the binary packages which were compiled on the machines of the debian maintainers. you just download the sources if you want to patch them...

there's a new programm called debtoo which builds the debian-source-packages with optimization to your own machine just like gentoo does. it's called debtoo...

www.debtoo.org
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think that Debian can really compete with Gentoo. Sure it might be okay, but when it comes to dependencies, you probably are still going to have to get them all on your own. Or is there something like portage in the Debian world as well?
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pwnz3r wrote:
I don't think that Debian can really compete with Gentoo. Sure it might be okay, but when it comes to dependencies, you probably are still going to have to get them all on your own. Or is there something like portage in the Debian world as well?


Yes, apt.

Edit: Oh, and btw, please give me an example of one distribution apart from LFS where you have to get the dependencies on your own.
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to a friend of mine that's fond of Debian, this package behaves somewhat like portage:
Quote:
Package: apt-build
Frontend to apt to build, optimize and install packages.

This is an apt-get front-end for compiling software optimized for your architecture by creating a local repository with built packages. It can manage system upgrade too.

I've never used Debian though
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pwnz3r wrote:
Sure it might be okay, but when it comes to dependencies, you probably are still going to have to get them all on your own.

Rofl! :-D
Quote:
Or is there something like portage in the Debian world as well?

Yep. Aptitude has the added advantage of being able to handle reverse dependencies when uninstalling packages, too. ;-)
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ralph: Red Hat prior to Fedora. Slackware. SuSE (did they finally fix this?). In fact, prior to Debian, I'm not sure anybody was cleanly handling dependencies automatically.
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Untouchable wrote:
According to a friend of mine that's fond of Debian, this package behaves somewhat like portage:
Quote:
Package: apt-build

Yeah, apt-build is great. :-) Fantastic for building optimized versions of those few packages that really give a significant performance boost as a result.

Other packages in the same ballpark include apt-fu (http://freshmeat.net/projects/apt-fu/) and the recently announced Debian From Scratch (http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2004/05/msg01431.html).
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

avenj wrote:
ralph: Red Hat prior to Fedora. Slackware. SuSE (did they finally fix this?). In fact, prior to Debian, I'm not sure anybody was cleanly handling dependencies automatically.


But Fedora seems to have fixed the problem and afaik SUSe finally fixed it too.
And doesn't Slackware even have some kind of package installer theses days.

Don´t get me wrong, I love portage and the way it handles dependencies but the situation has been getting better on other distributions as well and as you mentioned, the first ones that got it right were debian.
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

avenj wrote:
ralph: Red Hat prior to Fedora. Slackware. SuSE (did they finally fix this?). In fact, prior to Debian, I'm not sure anybody was cleanly handling dependencies automatically.

To this day, Debian are still the only ones who support "suggests" and "recommends" relationships between their packages, AFAIK.
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
it has both. source packages and binary packages.

you can download the source packages, unpack them (maybe patch the sources/change s.th. in the code) and then build a debian binary-package out of it by running a special tool.

but normally you just install the binary packages which were compiled on the machines of the debian maintainers. you just download the sources if you want to patch them...


in replying to Debian view,
Gentoo can "emerge" binary packages on the fly too, man
just emerge --usepkg packname. but it lost the point of using source base oriented distro, only use it as the last resort, I think gentoo should opt that out, 8O
I love building all sources from scratch, then it will be optimized and made to run smooth for MY machine ;).
as Debian normally uses binary packages, yeah dependencies crap may happen, that's odd, you might as well just switch to pure source base distro, right.


Last edited by beastmaster on Thu May 27, 2004 8:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen shots of Debian in which there were like GUI configuators. If so, the distro's not for me. However, maybe there aren't. Bah, who knows. :P
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I came from Debian, it's a good distro, but IMHO Gentoo is better. A quick brainstorming of the pro/cons of both:

Debian
=====
++ faster install (-> binaries)
+ automated configuration of packages
- cumbersome configuration
- dselect (I know there are other ways to install software in Debian)
- bad documentation (or I did not manage to find it)
+ online information about packages, versions, man pages
- you've got to find some packages on your own
- too much discussion about licenses
- old fashioned. Sorry, always had that feeling :wink:

Gentoo
=====
++ Portage, emerge, dependency resolving
+ CFLAGS, USE flags.
++ documentation
+ easy way to make your own ebuilds etc.
- uninstalling packages is a bit tricky
- compiling still takes a long time, so it's not likely to just give some applications a try.
+ I was never able to break it. Funny enough...
+ forums.gentoo.org
+ The feeling of progress :wink:
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

added another + for gentoo,
+ bleeding edge sources 8O
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and another + for Gentoo - the awesome init system
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like them both, but gentoo does not reach the maturity of debian.
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a few more pluses for Debian. Some may be a matter of taste, but then that's no different than many of the pros and cons that've already been posted. :-)

1) Comprehensive packaging policy (http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/) to which all packages must adhere
2) Architecture support - 11 released architectures (http://www.debian.org/ports/) or 12 if you count the AMD64 port
3) Stable release - arguably better than Gentoo for servers on account of the strict feature freeze, with critical updates being the only things allowed in
4) Email-based BTS access - bugs viewable via www, but bug control/manipulation is done through email
5) Reportbug (http://packages.debian.org/unstable/utils/reportbug) - assists users with bug reporting, and automatically attaches system information
6) The Debian Voting System (http://seehuhn.de/comp/vote.html).

EDIT: Added missing enclosing ) after first URL.
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even Fedora hasn't got the hang of dependencies. It's still the same old RPM based crap.

I used Fedora for a (very short) while and often when using apt-get (you can install apt-get for Fedora/RedHat) it would fail on some obscure dependency and I'd have to go searching for an RPM or attempt to build it from source, which sometimes screwed up the RPM database.

Ugh.

Apt-get in Debian is pretty awesome though.
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...isn't this going to be a bit biased posting this here ;)
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

allucid wrote:
...isn't this going to be a bit biased posting this here ;)
8O 8O My thoughts exactly 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O







8O
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