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joem
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hypnos wrote:

If you can't file a bug report simply because you use Gentoo, that makes GAIM harder to use; if you can't submit bug reports simply because you've used BMG ebuilds in the past, that makes Gentoo harder to use.


You can file a bug report no problem. The problem is when the bug reports contain something totally useless to the gaim devs like
Average Schmuck wrote:

Uh yea I was using gaim version 0.75-r3 and my emerge bailed out saying something about an error


Gaim devs got so many usless reports like that or bug reports that were specific to gentoo only that they asked the devs if they would point users towards the gentoo bugzilla before the gaim bug tracking system. If the bug is a real gaim bug and not related to gentoo in anyway..it will get reported upstream. If anything that would better the gaim development process, allowing them to work on things other then removing bogus bug reports
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Hypnos
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dst wrote:
You can file a bug report no problem. The problem is when the bug reports contain something totally useless to the gaim devs like
Average Schmuck wrote:

Uh yea I was using gaim version 0.75-r3 and my emerge bailed out saying something about an error

I know -- I have posted a bug report without telling them I'm on Gentoo :)

I don't like being lumped in with the "Average Schmucks"; nevertheless, I can understand a gainful, rational management policy provided its enforced with a modicum of civility.

This is my objection to Foser's behavior. His work seems top notch, but his rude behavior is totally unacceptable. Also, his BMG policy borders on irrational.
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joem
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hypnos wrote:
This is my objection to Foser's behavior. His work seems top notch, but his rude behavior is totally unacceptable. Also, his BMG policy borders on irrational.


Being lead of the gnome project gives him more work then most can handle. Foser has a policy of not being responsible for anything that he hasn't done(or that isn't in the official portage tree) It just so happens that bmg ebuilds are what he comes across most. I don't blame him for being rude when he has been asking people for the last year or so to not report bugs on ebuilds that he didn't write and that gentoo doesn't support. I also find it annoying when no matter how many times I tell people not to report bugs to him, they do it anyways.
I have a working relationship with foser and he has never randomly tried to hunt me down for what I do..he just doesn't want to be bothered with stuff that isn't his responsibility.

Lets try and get this thread back on topic though..
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Hypnos
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dst wrote:
Being lead of the gnome project gives him more work then most can handle. Foser has a policy of not being responsible for anything that he hasn't done(or that isn't in the official portage tree) It just so happens that bmg ebuilds are what he comes across most. I don't blame him for being rude when he has been asking people for the last year or so to not report bugs on ebuilds that he didn't write and that gentoo doesn't support. I also find it annoying when no matter how many times I tell people not to report bugs to him, they do it anyways.

I do blame him for being rude -- it's never called for. I can understand him only wanting to support his own product, but

Quote:
I suppose i wasn't clear enough in my initial comment, using BMG ebuilds results in losing our support. It doesn't matter to me if you don't actually use them at this point, they were on your system : No more support. That's why i'm closing this as INVALID now.


is simply nonsensical (bug #45783).

Quote:
Lets try and get this thread back on topic though..

Fair enough
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Epyon
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dlpierce wrote:
Epyon wrote:
I'm not a big fan of the new scroll bar that seems to serve no purpose.
http://www.fpscentral.com/uploads/gaim67scroll.png

I think you simply have some text that is slightly too long for the window to display. So technically, it does serve a purpose, otherwise it would not show.


Nope. Longest string there was Hello. I tried changing the size of the initial window in the preferences and the scroll bar is always there. I can make it 1000 pixels wide and its still there. Very annoying.
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jaredvolkl
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why am I not seeing 0.76 when I emerge? I've just ran emerge sync, and I still do not see it.
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PHSfatPIMP
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaredvolkl wrote:
Why am I not seeing 0.76 when I emerge? I've just ran emerge sync, and I still do not see it.


Same problems.
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wdreinhart
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has ~arch (unstable) keyword set right now. Try "ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=~x86 emerge -u gaim"
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guy
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Epyon wrote:
dlpierce wrote:
Epyon wrote:
I'm not a big fan of the new scroll bar that seems to serve no purpose.
http://www.fpscentral.com/uploads/gaim67scroll.png

I think you simply have some text that is slightly too long for the window to display. So technically, it does serve a purpose, otherwise it would not show.


Nope. Longest string there was Hello. I tried changing the size of the initial window in the preferences and the scroll bar is always there. I can make it 1000 pixels wide and its still there. Very annoying.


Anyways, why can't ext just be wrapped in the conversation and in the input box, regardless of whether or not there is a super long string?
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hypnos wrote:
mastergoon wrote:
you can say all you want about the gaim devs being jerks not providing you with support, but the fact is, this is free software, just be glad they put their time into making it.

Well, it makes their free software less worth it.

I'm switching to Gossip as soon as it supports AIM.


which version of gossip started supporting msn?
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Hypnos
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

d3c3it wrote:
which version of gossip started supporting msn?

Next major version is scheduled to support all the transports that Jabber supports -- MSN is one of them.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have a problem being asked not to report useless bugs to the gaim guys. It's just that that message is worded.. Well, it seemed a little bit rude.

Quote:
I agree..shutup. Until you produce something that people can use, nobody wants to hear your complaining. Even if you did produce something useful,I still don't want to hear your complaining.


That is the number one attitude that prevents linux from making it to the desktop mainstream.

I may not be able to "produce" C or C++ code, but I can give useful feedback to developers who don't have time to test every aspect of their application on every platform.

Hell, if you don't want it, I'll go back to Windows.

I thought the ideal behind Free Software was to make the software that underlies computers - which are becoming an increasingly large part of out lives - Free to everyone. I don't remember their being a stipulation that you had to be a Linux God. Some people are more knowledgable then others, and I thought the idea was that those individuals were willing to help along others toward the goal, in a respectful mannder.

I guess I thought wrong.
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G-Style
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gaim 0.76 works fine here.
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RealityMage
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Epyon wrote:
I'm not a big fan of the new scroll bar that seems to serve no purpose.
http://www.fpscentral.com/uploads/gaim67scroll.png


Me too! This pissed me off big time - I turned off the history plugin just so I didn't have to see this scroll bar.

Two other pisser-offers. You now have to get through a sub menu to get to your custom away messages. Also, a certain friend of mine uses a small font. Before, it was fine, but the new Gaim makes it unreadably small!
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joem
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

F16PilotJumper wrote:
I don't have a problem being asked not to report useless bugs to the gaim guys. It's just that that message is worded.. Well, it seemed a little bit rude.

Quote:
I agree..shutup. Until you produce something that people can use, nobody wants to hear your complaining. Even if you did produce something useful,I still don't want to hear your complaining.


That is the number one attitude that prevents linux from making it to the desktop mainstream.

I may not be able to "produce" C or C++ code, but I can give useful feedback to developers who don't have time to test every aspect of their application on every platform.

Hell, if you don't want it, I'll go back to Windows.

I thought the ideal behind Free Software was to make the software that underlies computers - which are becoming an increasingly large part of out lives - Free to everyone. I don't remember their being a stipulation that you had to be a Linux God. Some people are more knowledgable then others, and I thought the idea was that those individuals were willing to help along others toward the goal, in a respectful mannder.

I guess I thought wrong.


Something useful doesn't have to be c/c++ code. It can be anything..it could even be feedback...but useless feedback isn't worth a thing. It doesn't take a linux god to not piss and moan about something after reading 3 einfo lines.

Getting back on topic...More information/progress about gossip can be found here: http://gossip.imendio.org/hackerlog/

Galago is also worth keeping an eye on: http://sourceforge.net/projects/galago
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khiloa
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

/me got
/me likes very much :D
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RealityMage wrote:
You now have to get through a sub menu to get to your custom away messages.


Enable the system tray plugin. Then you can right-click on it, and use the away mode option there.
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rizzo
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright there's enough FUD going around that I thought I'd better make an appearance and set things straight.

First, foser doesn't maintain gaim, I do. foser hates it when gaim bugs get assigned to him, as do I.

Second, regarding my note to file bugs with gentoo instead of gaim. This is because the distro should always be the first line of defense, since the distro often modifies the distribution, as we did heavily with gaim-0.75. The gaim developers don't know or care how we modified the source for building, and don't want to support any of those changes. Filing bugs with them that turn out to be due to changes we in the distro made wastes both their time and yours.

See the Gospel according to drobbins:

Quote:
Others have a germ of truth to them. Robbins acknowledged twice in his talk that Gentoo users have a reputation for pestering upstream open source developers with bug reports. Some have been legitimate -- the idiosyncratic configurations permitted by Gentoo often shook out obscure problems in the most stable packages. There's a general feeling among some developers that Gentoo users are identifying problems caused not by upstream bugs, but by aggressive optimization or other poor configuration choices that the users themselves have made.

Robbins wants to stop this, and emphasizes that if Gentoo users have a problem, reporting bugs upstream to the software's original author is the wrong place to start, and that they should let the Gentoo development team know first.


So if you want to stop using gaim because I'm trying to make us better netizens, go nuts. It honestly doesn't affect how I'm going to do things and especially won't affect the gaim developers.
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allucid
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of my friends' fonts have become unreadably small in this release. Is there any easy way to fix this (without setting gaim to ignore their settings).

Also, i thought i would point out that the "autographed photo" of the gaim devs on ebay went for $255. That's crazy.
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rizzo
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

allucid wrote:
Some of my friends' fonts have become unreadably small in this release.


Are your friends using Windows? I believe this is a known issue with the Windows GTK+ build. See http://gaim.sourceforge.net/win32/index.php for a remedy.
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allucid
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No. At least one is using a mac (iChat) and one is using AIM on windows i think. I meant that their fonts are small on gaim on my computer when I am talking to them, not that they are small on their screens.
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RealityMage
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

allucid wrote:
No. At least one is using a mac (iChat) and one is using AIM on windows i think. I meant that their fonts are small on gaim on my computer when I am talking to them, not that they are small on their screens.


Same here.
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rizzo
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Possible explanation:
Quote:
22:40 < LSchiere> rizzo: if the ichat is using a large default font size, alot of ichat users might be setting their default to -1


Check with your friends on this. I personally don't care for the fluff so I ignore user fonts/styles.
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allucid
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah it was just easier to ignore user font sizes.
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